4 ms·

> Patel announced the arrest of Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Hannah Dugan in a post on the social media platform X, which he deleted moments after posting. Th

> Patel announced the arrest of Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Hannah Dugan in a post on the social media platform X, which he deleted moments after posting. The post accused Dugan of “intentionally misdirecting” federal agents who arrived at the courthouse to detain an immigrant who was set to appear before her in an unrelated proceeding. Federal agents have been using this to charge people for nearly a century [1]. Personally I find the law itself repellent, and more often than not it is used to manufacture crimes out of thin air. But if the article is accurate, then nothing has changed - the law is simply being applied evenly, and judges are not above the law. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements

sorcerer-mar 2y ago
The thing that has changed is that 6 months ago, directing federal agents away from an illegal immigrant couldn't be rationalized by one's oath to the Constitution committing one to a belief like "I don't think anyone should be blackbagged and sent to foreign torture prisons for the rest of their lives without due process." Sure, the law is the law, but it's certainly not true that nothing has changed.
- Spivak 2y ago
  Or just the simple "they're appearing in my courtroom I have an exclusive lock on them until I'm done."
- pbhjpbhj 2y ago
  Or to put it another way, if the enforcement of a law cause an action contrary to the USA Constitution then just as before a judge should block that action; previously - presumably - when applying this law it was being done constitutionally. A judge aiding unidentified assailants (not bearing any insignia of office and hiding their identity) attempting to abduct a person and send them to a death camp would be supremely objectionable in any democracy.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kemayo 2y ago
> the law is simply being applied evenly, and judges are not above the law. We obviously don't know the details yet, but this case does sound like it's on the more frivolous end of such charges. If they actually wanted to prosecute on it, they'd need to convince another judge/jury that this judge didn't just make a mistake about where the targeted person was supposed to be right then. This kind of prosecution normally involves comparatively more concrete things -- say, someone claiming to have no idea about a transaction and then the feds pulling out their signature on a receipt. Of course, this could be a case where the judge knew the person was in a waiting room because they'd just talked to them there on camera, and then deliberately told the ICE agents they were on the other side of the courthouse while they were recording everything.
JKCalhoun 2y ago
> Federal agents have been using this to charge people for nearly a century Using it on judges?
- typeofhuman 2y ago
  Being a judge might just be circumstantial (sensational?). The arrest may be because of the person's personal actions; not their professional actions as a judge.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    But I imagine arresting a judge requires an extra level of discretion. At the very least it's going to be a PR problem if it is found to be unwarranted.
    - typeofhuman 2y ago
      > But I imagine arresting a judge requires an extra level of discretion. This creates an air of a two-tiered justice system. No one is above the law.
  - teachrdan 2y ago
    > Being a judge might just be circumstantial (sensational?). The arrest may be because of the person's personal actions; not their professional actions as a judge. I'm sure you're an intelligent person, but this response seems almost deliberately obtuse. This is clearly an act by the current administration to intimidate the judiciary. It is impossible to separate the unprecedented act of arresting a sitting judge for failing to arrest someone on behalf of ICE from the administration's illegal (according to the Supreme Court) sending immigrants to a prison in El Salvador without due process.
    - like_any_other 2y ago
      > arresting a sitting judge for failing to arrest someone If the article is accurate, he was arrested for making false statements in a personal capacity, not for failing to act.
typeofhuman 2y ago
At the risk of being pedantic, all laws are used to manufacture crimes.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
typeofhuman 2y ago
The FBI Director's post was not deleted https://x.com/FBIDirectorKash/status/1915800907318468626 https://x.com/FBIDirectorKash/status/1915800907318468626

sorcerer-mar 2y ago

The thing that has changed is that 6 months ago, directing federal agents away from an illegal immigrant couldn't be rationalized by one's oath to the Constitution committing one to a belief like "I don't think anyone should be blackbagged and sent to foreign torture prisons for the rest of their lives without due process." Sure, the law is the law, but it's certainly not true that nothing has changed.

Spivak 2y ago
Or just the simple "they're appearing in my courtroom I have an exclusive lock on them until I'm done."
pbhjpbhj 2y ago
Or to put it another way, if the enforcement of a law cause an action contrary to the USA Constitution then just as before a judge should block that action; previously - presumably - when applying this law it was being done constitutionally. A judge aiding unidentified assailants (not bearing any insignia of office and hiding their identity) attempting to abduct a person and send them to a death camp would be supremely objectionable in any democracy.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

kemayo 2y ago

> the law is simply being applied evenly, and judges are not above the law. We obviously don't know the details yet, but this case does sound like it's on the more frivolous end of such charges. If they actually wanted to prosecute on it, they'd need to convince another judge/jury that this judge didn't just make a mistake about where the targeted person was supposed to be right then. This kind of prosecution normally involves comparatively more concrete things -- say, someone claiming to have no idea about a transaction and then the feds pulling out their signature on a receipt. Of course, this could be a case where the judge knew the person was in a waiting room because they'd just talked to them there on camera, and then deliberately told the ICE agents they were on the other side of the courthouse while they were recording everything.

JKCalhoun 2y ago

> Federal agents have been using this to charge people for nearly a century Using it on judges?

typeofhuman 2y ago
Being a judge might just be circumstantial (sensational?). The arrest may be because of the person's personal actions; not their professional actions as a judge.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  But I imagine arresting a judge requires an extra level of discretion. At the very least it's going to be a PR problem if it is found to be unwarranted.
  - typeofhuman 2y ago
    > But I imagine arresting a judge requires an extra level of discretion. This creates an air of a two-tiered justice system. No one is above the law.
- teachrdan 2y ago
  > Being a judge might just be circumstantial (sensational?). The arrest may be because of the person's personal actions; not their professional actions as a judge. I'm sure you're an intelligent person, but this response seems almost deliberately obtuse. This is clearly an act by the current administration to intimidate the judiciary. It is impossible to separate the unprecedented act of arresting a sitting judge for failing to arrest someone on behalf of ICE from the administration's illegal (according to the Supreme Court) sending immigrants to a prison in El Salvador without due process.
  - like_any_other 2y ago
    > arresting a sitting judge for failing to arrest someone If the article is accurate, he was arrested for making false statements in a personal capacity, not for failing to act.

typeofhuman 2y ago

At the risk of being pedantic, all laws are used to manufacture crimes.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

typeofhuman 2y ago

The FBI Director's post was not deleted https://x.com/FBIDirectorKash/status/1915800907318468626 https://x.com/FBIDirectorKash/status/1915800907318468626