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I'm getting a little tired of hearing this quote at this point. What about humoring the opposite? I want AI to automate art so I can spend more time doing dis
by jsphweid 1y ago
I'm getting a little tired of hearing this quote at this point.
What about humoring the opposite?
I want AI to automate art so I can spend more time doing dishes and doing laundry. Dishes and laundry are purely analog human experiences. Art, at this point, is essentially digital, and digital is the domain of machines so we can let machines do that now.
- Al-Khwarizmi 1y agoYou don't need AI for that. Just come to my house, I can allow you to spend time in analog human experiences like dishes and laundry for free. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
- voidspark 1y agoI want AI to automate everything, so that I can exist in a pod, fed intravenously, in a permanent vegetative state.
- Toenex 1y agoI want AI to be able to do everything so the I can choose to do anything.
- voidspark 1y agoIf it can do everything, then you will be redundant.
- dgfl 1y agoI keep coming back to this thought. Maybe it’s how I was raised, but knowing that I’m doing something useful to other people / humanity is the entire point. When a machine can do everything better than we can, then what do we derive meaning from? I usually get out of the existential dread by thinking that we’re still some time away from the issue, and that there will still be some pursuits left, like space colonization. But it’s not fully satisfying.
- voidspark 1y agoWe can join the Amish and reject all technology based on AI. There may be a war against Big Tech. Terrorist attacks on data centers and robot factories.
- pjmlp 1y agoSomeone has been watching Netflix.
- j4coh 1y agoThe technologists have no qualms about encroachment on your space.
- eucryphia 1y agoAs long as we have a choice. Not that long ago you would lose your job because you refused to take an experimental vaccination that didn’t prevent transmission.
- amanaplanacanal 1y agoWere there a lot of jobs that required vaccinations? I expect health care and military, but that comes with the job. Mine certainly didn't.
- int_19h 1y agoGuess who wins in a war where one side has killer drone swarms with thermal vision, and the other one doesn't? The only way to win this fight is to embrace the tech and put it to good use, not to shun it.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- voidspark 1y agoIf “put it to good use” means the value of human labor drops to zero, and everyone loses their job to ASI, then violent resistance is inevitable.
- paulluuk 1y agoThanking of yourself as "redundant" limits your view of a human to that of a machine, and in doing so you are doing humanity a great disservice. I'd recommend reading the Culture series for a vision of a future where AI has essentially taken over and humans can live out their lives as they want instead of as they need to.
- voidspark 1y agoWhat if you WANT to have a career or a job which is now done exclusively by AGI?
- chii 1y agoThere are still blacksmiths today, selling artisanal products. I dont believe it to be any different with the advent of AGI. What you don't get of course, is the economic benefit of previously.
- voidspark 1y agoIf AGI takes my job as a software developer, my career is finished. I don't know what else to do. Companies won't give a shit about "artisanal" code.
- Juliate 1y agoYou don't need "companies". You need enough customers to buy/support your work so that you get a living out of it. Being a software developer is a _facet_ of your work. You (unconsciously perhaps) do many other things around/with it that the most efficient AI today cannot do alone. And AGI is still far on the horizon, if not a mirage.
- voidspark 1y agoHey we're talking about a future scenario where AGI actually exists and is vastly better at software development than any human, and can do it much cheaper than current developer salaries. We're talking about science fiction which may become true much sooner than most people expect. I would be competing with cheap AGI services so it makes no difference whether I am a freelancer or not. > Being a software developer is a _facet_ of your work. You (unconsciously perhaps) do many other things around/with it The non-development parts of my job are not interesting at all. If that's gone then my career is finished. I'm done.
- seqizz 1y agoBut there are people who already doing what you are currently doing. Also they do it waaaay better. If this does not make you redundant, why would AI do it?
- voidspark 1y ago> they do it waaaay better No they don't. There is a very limited supply of developers who are better than me. I am talking about a future where we have a practically infinite supply of cheap AGI software developers that are vastly superior to the smartest human being who ever lived.
- Juliate 1y agoAnd where do you find the energy technology required for that to happen? Hint: it's not on the radar, but if you account for several fundamental breakthroughs in energy production, storage and transport, and all that while having positive side-effects on Earth's ecosystem, within the next 50 years.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- voidspark 1y agoI'm not talking about current primitive technology with these power hungry LLMs. The human brain runs on only 0.3 kWh per day. There is much room for optimization for artificial intelligence. They don't need many super intelligent systems to replace the relatively small number of software developers. Just build a few nuclear power stations. Cheaper than millions of developer salaries.
- Juliate 1y agoTotally agree, IF an AGI can fully replace/improve on the work of developers, it's definitely cheaper. But: 1/ cheaper isn't always affordable either. 2/ who will engineer/maintain/steer AGI once AGI takes the job? once you make that leap, there's no way back, no one to understand the machine that makes the stuff we rely on. And that circles back, in some way, with the debate about AI-generated art: there's no human component in it, there's no understanding, no feedback loop, no conversation.
- ben_w 1y agoOr retired. One is a bad future. The other one may or may not be, as per SMBC being philosophy disguised as humour: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/leisure https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/leisure https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/touch-2 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/touch-2 (Can't find the one I was after comparing retirement to UBI, but did find two identically scripted haiku jokes).
- MantisShrimp90 1y agoI mean I guess In this obtuse, maybe someone's joy In life is doing dishes and that is their art, then idk maybe but not even then. First, this just misunderstands what is being said here. For most people, chores like the dishes is a menial task that we will be happy for any reduction in time/effort. In addition, dishes and laundry are considered necessary for modern life. By contrast, art like music and visual mediums is often associated with joy and the creative act of building something out of making art rather than getting a task done. To misunderstand this contrast is to misunderstand why we automate things in the first place, to minimize the unnecessary toil and maximize human flourishing. This does the opposite frankly.
- jsphweid 1y agoA nice thing about doing dishes over creating art is that it's something you can work hard in and get a predictable amount of work done which is gratifying. Meanwhile you can stare at a blank sheet of staff paper in frustration for an hour not knowing the best way to evolve your music composition and it's a really bad experience. That's my experience often. Personally, it's not too difficult for me to invert it / humor the opposite. My context is that I got a degree in music composition and also had several jobs washing dishes. It often goes with having a music degree :) Obviously the original quote deliberately creates an unfair fight in the arena by matching a conventionally dull-sounding analog task such as "washing dishes" with a sophisticated digital task such as making art (digital since LLMs do it, and that's what the complaint is about). I could also create an unfair fight by saying "I'd rather have machines organize my spreadsheets (boring digital task) so I can have more time to hang out with other humans I love (appealing analog task)." For me, by inverting it, I've come to realize it's not about art or dishes, but more about analog and digital. If one is partaking in any digital activity, then the trend of machines entering and taking over that space is inevitable. I think humans will revert more towards prioritizing and finding meaning in purely analog endeavors. Human art will shift back to analog. That's just my personal prediction.
- Karrot_Kream 1y agoI love your perspective here. I don't agree with all of it, but it really made me think. I do a lot of photography as a semi-amateur hobby (semi because I occasionally get paid but my goal is not to be a professional.) Often when I'm going out shooting in a city, thousands, maybe even millions have observed the same sight I'm seeing. I'm not snapping the first picture of the Hindenburg or the unveiling of the Empire State Building. But it's my unique perspective that makes my art. People like and recognize my pictures because of my personal composition. In general I think most portrait and street photographers have come to terms with this, and an increasing number of landscape and event photographers in the age of smartphones. With art there's no "right answer", it's the soul found within the work.
- tdb7893 1y agoWhat's to humor here? Do you have a passion for laundry and dishes? Do you spend your free time gleefully dirtying dishes just so you can wash them again? Is art or music something you feel forced to do but don't want to? I am struggling to understand what's really the opposite here. I don't think anyone views art as the same sort of burden as people view dishes. It's not something you're forced to do (even in the situations you do need it it's pretty trivial to buy).
- jsphweid 1y ago> What's to humor here? Analog human experiences.
- Juliate 1y ago> Art, at this point, is essentially digital, Essentially? No. Does digital art reduce analog art in the world? Not even. There’s still more and more, courses, workshops, live performances and physical artefacts. > and digital is the domain of machines so we can let machines do that now. Art by machines for machines to understand machines (to the extent they would have a notion of self and of other), fine, do your thing as long as the energy you need does not deprive humans needs. As for me and many others, life happens in the analog realm, so does art.
- tmountain 1y agoI go to art museums regularly and look at framed canvas hanging on the walls. It’s an entirely analog experience minus the occasional digital exhibition. I use this experience as an escape from the digital world and hope it stays this way.
- Griffinsauce 1y ago> Art, at this point, is essentially digital Are you serious with this?
- jsphweid 1y ago"essentially" is, regrettably, a misplaced word. I meant "basically" or "generally". But if the art is expressed as a sequence of bytes/tokens (ex. a song on spotify, a movie on amazon prime, a png, etc.), then it is by definition digital. I think it's reasonable to assume this is how most art is produced and consumed today.
- eucryphia 1y agoI enjoy gardening, but use a hedge trimmer. Capital Investment in productivity enhancement so I can manage a larger, more complex garden.
- viccis 1y agoIs there a point to this other than trolling, or is it legitimate philistinism?