8 ms·

To be clear, I'm don't like the Microsoft has a proprietary Marketplace, but a company openly violating the terms of use for their own profit is a bit much in m

To be clear, I'm don't like the Microsoft has a proprietary Marketplace, but a company openly violating the terms of use for their own profit is a bit much in my opinion. > Cursor allegedly has been flouting Microsoft terms-of-service rules for some time now by setting up a reverse proxy to mask its network requests to the endpoints used by the Microsoft Visual Studio Marketplace. This allows Cursor users to install VS Code extensions from Microsoft's market. Other VS Code forks tend to point to Open VSX, an alternative extension marketplace.

madeofpalk 1y ago
Yeah, I've noticed this using cursor. I was surprised that the extension marketplace seemed... identical to VS Code.
- benoau 1y ago
  But why should we care? It's obvious Cursor's IDE is VSCode, I cannot think of a single reason why I should be against executing whatever the hell I want on my computer. It's not Cursor doing this, it's me doing this using Cursor.
  - fsloth 1y ago
    That’s not how companies see it. From MS point of view it’s Cursor doing it to them. The way copyright and other rights to your IP you claim to have work in practice, is you need to enforce those claims or loose the rights.
    - benoau 1y ago
      Another way copyright has worked for decades is qBittorrent for instance, is not responsible for infringements by users. Along with massive carve-outs for Microsoft and the gang to avoid that responsibility too, on GitHub and YouTube and many other websites.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - hnfong 1y ago
      > The way copyright and other rights to your IP you claim to have work in practice, is you need to enforce those claims or loose the rights. Generally only applies to trademarks, not copyrights. In most English speaking countries copyright is a proprietary right and you don't lose it if you don't actively enforce it. But there could be time limits to a plaintiff bringing a civil case to court (usually a couple years).
      - fsloth 1y ago
        No copyright alone afaik stops anyone from abusing said rights unless you tell them to stop. Would be happy to have counterexamples.
        hnfong 1y ago
        Of course you can't enforce your rights if you don't enforce them. That isn't what people mean by "losing" the rights. For example somewhere on the planet somebody is running a pirated copy of Windows 10. But it would be misleading to post a headline saying "Microsoft LOSES copyright over Windows 10!!!".
      - tialaramex 1y ago
        It doesn't apply to trademarks either but it's convenient to insist that trademark "enforcement" is required if you're either a trademark lawyer looking for more clients or you're an aggressive litigant and you want an excuse so people will forget you're a monster. Oh the Disney corporation had to sue the village primary school because their play used a trademarked name for a folk tale everybody knows about... it's not that they are monsters who care only about money and power, they were forced to secure undisclosed damages and make children cry by some principle of law which definitely exists. Mmm sure. The last time I pointed this out on HN somebody responded with LLM generated nonsense "citing" non-existent US legal cases which they argued somehow prove I'm wrong.
        brookst 1y ago
        Well if you’re going to cite unnamed posts where unnamed people cited some LLM to argue against you, obviously you are 100% correct.
    - econnors 1y ago
      Hey – hope you see this, wasn't sure another way to reach out. You left a comment ~10 years ago on an HN post about a breathing exercise. I discovered it, tried it, and since used breathing exercises to regulate an otherwise problematic amount of stress. Thank you for that.
      - phatskat 1y ago
        That’s, huh, aww. This is so wonderful! If you have a link to said comment, it wouldn’t mind sharing what you learned, that would be lovely. I can also dig back ~10 years when I’m on my computer tomorrow :)
  - madeofpalk 1y ago
    I don't care. I was just surprised at them doing that because I thought MS/VSCode did not allow it. It would impact users if things escalate and gets more hostile between the two and starts impacting features (like regressions in extension availability)
AIPedant 1y ago
The Cursor founders (technically the company is called Anysphere, Inc) are all young MIT grads. What they needed is a 40-year-old with a degree from Fitchburg State who could say "Woah, don't do that! It's not worth the long-term risk!"
- londons_explore 1y ago
  It is worth the long term risk. Either you don't get caught and can move faster, or you get caught and the penalty is usually small and a long way down the line, by which time your company will have either folded or grown enough to pay without difficulty.
  - electroly 1y ago
    That's the play when your adversary is regulation--the government moves slowly, court cases move even slower, and you can grease the wheels politically. That is not the scenario here. Cursor is being hunted by an extremely motivated corporate competitor. Cursor has been leeching the gorilla's blood and the gorilla finally noticed. Microsoft doesn't (necessarily) need the law here. They have it if they need it, but they can kill Cursor without needing to sue them. The disastrous outcome isn't a penalty--it's a critical mass of users switching to Copilot because they can't use their Microsoft extensions in Cursor any more. Cutting off the extensions on the same day that their Cursor clone went live was effectively a declaration of war from Microsoft.
    - moi2388 1y ago
      What cursor clone?
      - electroly 1y ago
        Agent mode in Copilot. It all went down on April 4th: the rollout of agent mode to all users, and the sudden enforcement of the license in their C++ extension.
m463 1y ago
lol, Microsoft has been doing this kind of thing for a while... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation#Antitrust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation#Antitrust
- bangaladore 1y ago
  While its fair to claim Microsoft has legal issues, I'm not sure what similarity you are drawing to what Cursor is doing.
  - benoau 1y ago
    It's what is motivating Microsoft to prevent what Cursor is doing. All cursor is doing is saying this blob of crap is compatible with their fork and letting you run it. This is akin to browsers supporting extensions from other browsers, and many other scenarios. What Microsoft is doing is trying to prevent VSCode from becoming spontaneously obsolete because coding with Cursor a) removes you from VSCode and b) does it better.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - bangaladore 1y ago
      Microsoft spends dev time to make a C++ extension for VSCode, gives it for free to VSCode users. I feel like Microsoft has the right to say don't use our proprietary application out of "official" VSCode. Microsoft however can't claim that 3rd party extensions can only be used in "official" VSCode.
axpvms 1y ago
cursor also hijacks the 'code' alias to start vscode from the cli, which I use a lot. It's extremely annoying to have cursor start instead and unnncessarily difficult to get rid of. I removed cursor because of this.
- hbogert 1y ago
  if i remember correctly, on my first start of cursor, it explicitly asked if it was allowed to do this.
- doix 1y ago
  I'm pretty sure that was an option when installing, I remember unchecking it and 'code' still launches vscode for me. Curious how it's difficult to remove, I'd expect something like rm `which code` to do it. Unless they add the alias to your shell or something?
  - axpvms 1y ago
    maybe they changed some things last I used it, which was maybe six months ago. I've tried cursor twice and had the same issue each time. I saw the dialogue you were talking about and specifically selected to not override the code extension and it happened again anyway. Maybe there was something left over from the previous install, I don't know. I was using windows and wsl, and they were adding scripts to my profile directory (code.cmd) which then took precedence over vscode, from what I remember. Tracking that down required googling to discover other people who were having the same issue. If this is what I have to do when I first start using a product, it just leaves a bad impression. Additionally it seems that it will hijack the 'code' alias in WSL if you select this option or not, which is where I primarily use it. And then when cursor updates, it seems it will again attempt to overwrite this alias. I'm not the only one who encounters this issue https://github.com/getcursor/cursor/issues/2654 https://github.com/getcursor/cursor/issues/2654 https://github.com/getcursor/cursor/issues/2566 https://github.com/getcursor/cursor/issues/2566 https://forum.cursor.com/t/do-not-hijack-code-shortcut/60671 https://forum.cursor.com/t/do-not-hijack-code-shortcut/60671 https://namvu.net/2025/01/cursor-stole-your-code-command-heres-how-to-revert-it/ https://namvu.net/2025/01/cursor-stole-your-code-command-her... Maybe it works great for other people and they never encounter this issue. Maybe it seems like a petty thing. For me it seems it's implemented to attempt to 'force convert' some vscode users to use cursor all the time, and maybe that works and it's a success from a business perspective. But I won't use it again.
grobbyy 1y ago
Terms of service often contain illegal provisions. I teach kids to flout them too. One of the biggest sins in school is kids learn to follow rules uncritically. There are specific protections allowed when the goal is to maintain / break compatibility. If Microsoft locks competitors out, competitors are quite often permitted to pick the lock. I can't comment on this situation since I don't know the details, but it's very likely this is fully legal. See Oracle / Java API lawsuit, garage door opener suit, etc. To see where the lines sit.
- kyrra 1y ago
  I think your analogies are wrong. There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth. Microsoft does not need to provide access for downloading plugins from their servers to anyone else.
  - mrpopo 1y ago
    I am quite confident that the bandwidth cost is absolutely not a concern for Microsoft, and that the obvious goal is for them to capture the market. The "C/C++" extension github repository is 4MB. Probably the download size for the extension itself is a fraction of that, but I won't bother measuring. It was downloaded 400 times over the last minute (there is a live counter on the extension page [0]). [0] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.cpptools https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscod... That's a 25MB/s or 200Mb/s bandwidth, for one of the most popular extensions. Multiply by the top 10 extensions and you get the bandwidth of an average home optic fiber connection...
    - infecto 1y ago
      I am glad you have insider knowledge to be so confident. I would rather those costs go towards furthering VS Code than helping out Cursor. This comes from someone who uses Cursor and not the biggest fan of MSFT. Pure speculation but I would see the more logical argument being Cursor is a for pay product, why should they have access to the marketplace?
bitbasher 1y ago
Fun fact, adblockers are often a violation to ToS as well. Should we all uninstall them?
- bangaladore 1y ago
  I have no problem with you violating TOS. But a corporation openly doing it is problematic. I get Microsoft is a Megacorp, but I don't think too highly of all these ai startups either.
  - bitbasher 1y ago
    I don't like the AI startups either. My main concern is this behavior being normalized and the non-AI startups (or open source projects) getting shafted.

madeofpalk 1y ago

Yeah, I've noticed this using cursor. I was surprised that the extension marketplace seemed... identical to VS Code.

benoau 1y ago
But why should we care? It's obvious Cursor's IDE is VSCode, I cannot think of a single reason why I should be against executing whatever the hell I want on my computer. It's not Cursor doing this, it's me doing this using Cursor.
- fsloth 1y ago
  That’s not how companies see it. From MS point of view it’s Cursor doing it to them. The way copyright and other rights to your IP you claim to have work in practice, is you need to enforce those claims or loose the rights.
  - benoau 1y ago
    Another way copyright has worked for decades is qBittorrent for instance, is not responsible for infringements by users. Along with massive carve-outs for Microsoft and the gang to avoid that responsibility too, on GitHub and YouTube and many other websites.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - hnfong 1y ago
    > The way copyright and other rights to your IP you claim to have work in practice, is you need to enforce those claims or loose the rights. Generally only applies to trademarks, not copyrights. In most English speaking countries copyright is a proprietary right and you don't lose it if you don't actively enforce it. But there could be time limits to a plaintiff bringing a civil case to court (usually a couple years).
    - fsloth 1y ago
      No copyright alone afaik stops anyone from abusing said rights unless you tell them to stop. Would be happy to have counterexamples.
      - hnfong 1y ago
        Of course you can't enforce your rights if you don't enforce them. That isn't what people mean by "losing" the rights. For example somewhere on the planet somebody is running a pirated copy of Windows 10. But it would be misleading to post a headline saying "Microsoft LOSES copyright over Windows 10!!!".
    - tialaramex 1y ago
      It doesn't apply to trademarks either but it's convenient to insist that trademark "enforcement" is required if you're either a trademark lawyer looking for more clients or you're an aggressive litigant and you want an excuse so people will forget you're a monster. Oh the Disney corporation had to sue the village primary school because their play used a trademarked name for a folk tale everybody knows about... it's not that they are monsters who care only about money and power, they were forced to secure undisclosed damages and make children cry by some principle of law which definitely exists. Mmm sure. The last time I pointed this out on HN somebody responded with LLM generated nonsense "citing" non-existent US legal cases which they argued somehow prove I'm wrong.
      - brookst 1y ago
        Well if you’re going to cite unnamed posts where unnamed people cited some LLM to argue against you, obviously you are 100% correct.
  - econnors 1y ago
    Hey – hope you see this, wasn't sure another way to reach out. You left a comment ~10 years ago on an HN post about a breathing exercise. I discovered it, tried it, and since used breathing exercises to regulate an otherwise problematic amount of stress. Thank you for that.
    - phatskat 1y ago
      That’s, huh, aww. This is so wonderful! If you have a link to said comment, it wouldn’t mind sharing what you learned, that would be lovely. I can also dig back ~10 years when I’m on my computer tomorrow :)
- madeofpalk 1y ago
  I don't care. I was just surprised at them doing that because I thought MS/VSCode did not allow it. It would impact users if things escalate and gets more hostile between the two and starts impacting features (like regressions in extension availability)

AIPedant 1y ago

The Cursor founders (technically the company is called Anysphere, Inc) are all young MIT grads. What they needed is a 40-year-old with a degree from Fitchburg State who could say "Woah, don't do that! It's not worth the long-term risk!"

londons_explore 1y ago
It is worth the long term risk. Either you don't get caught and can move faster, or you get caught and the penalty is usually small and a long way down the line, by which time your company will have either folded or grown enough to pay without difficulty.
- electroly 1y ago
  That's the play when your adversary is regulation--the government moves slowly, court cases move even slower, and you can grease the wheels politically. That is not the scenario here. Cursor is being hunted by an extremely motivated corporate competitor. Cursor has been leeching the gorilla's blood and the gorilla finally noticed. Microsoft doesn't (necessarily) need the law here. They have it if they need it, but they can kill Cursor without needing to sue them. The disastrous outcome isn't a penalty--it's a critical mass of users switching to Copilot because they can't use their Microsoft extensions in Cursor any more. Cutting off the extensions on the same day that their Cursor clone went live was effectively a declaration of war from Microsoft.
  - moi2388 1y ago
    What cursor clone?
    - electroly 1y ago
      Agent mode in Copilot. It all went down on April 4th: the rollout of agent mode to all users, and the sudden enforcement of the license in their C++ extension.

m463 1y ago

lol, Microsoft has been doing this kind of thing for a while... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation#Antitrust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation#Antitrust

bangaladore 1y ago
While its fair to claim Microsoft has legal issues, I'm not sure what similarity you are drawing to what Cursor is doing.
- benoau 1y ago
  It's what is motivating Microsoft to prevent what Cursor is doing. All cursor is doing is saying this blob of crap is compatible with their fork and letting you run it. This is akin to browsers supporting extensions from other browsers, and many other scenarios. What Microsoft is doing is trying to prevent VSCode from becoming spontaneously obsolete because coding with Cursor a) removes you from VSCode and b) does it better.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - bangaladore 1y ago
    Microsoft spends dev time to make a C++ extension for VSCode, gives it for free to VSCode users. I feel like Microsoft has the right to say don't use our proprietary application out of "official" VSCode. Microsoft however can't claim that 3rd party extensions can only be used in "official" VSCode.

axpvms 1y ago

cursor also hijacks the 'code' alias to start vscode from the cli, which I use a lot. It's extremely annoying to have cursor start instead and unnncessarily difficult to get rid of. I removed cursor because of this.

hbogert 1y ago
if i remember correctly, on my first start of cursor, it explicitly asked if it was allowed to do this.
doix 1y ago
I'm pretty sure that was an option when installing, I remember unchecking it and 'code' still launches vscode for me. Curious how it's difficult to remove, I'd expect something like rm `which code` to do it. Unless they add the alias to your shell or something?
- axpvms 1y ago
  maybe they changed some things last I used it, which was maybe six months ago. I've tried cursor twice and had the same issue each time. I saw the dialogue you were talking about and specifically selected to not override the code extension and it happened again anyway. Maybe there was something left over from the previous install, I don't know. I was using windows and wsl, and they were adding scripts to my profile directory (code.cmd) which then took precedence over vscode, from what I remember. Tracking that down required googling to discover other people who were having the same issue. If this is what I have to do when I first start using a product, it just leaves a bad impression. Additionally it seems that it will hijack the 'code' alias in WSL if you select this option or not, which is where I primarily use it. And then when cursor updates, it seems it will again attempt to overwrite this alias. I'm not the only one who encounters this issue https://github.com/getcursor/cursor/issues/2654 https://github.com/getcursor/cursor/issues/2654 https://github.com/getcursor/cursor/issues/2566 https://github.com/getcursor/cursor/issues/2566 https://forum.cursor.com/t/do-not-hijack-code-shortcut/60671 https://forum.cursor.com/t/do-not-hijack-code-shortcut/60671 https://namvu.net/2025/01/cursor-stole-your-code-command-heres-how-to-revert-it/ https://namvu.net/2025/01/cursor-stole-your-code-command-her... Maybe it works great for other people and they never encounter this issue. Maybe it seems like a petty thing. For me it seems it's implemented to attempt to 'force convert' some vscode users to use cursor all the time, and maybe that works and it's a success from a business perspective. But I won't use it again.

grobbyy 1y ago

Terms of service often contain illegal provisions. I teach kids to flout them too. One of the biggest sins in school is kids learn to follow rules uncritically. There are specific protections allowed when the goal is to maintain / break compatibility. If Microsoft locks competitors out, competitors are quite often permitted to pick the lock. I can't comment on this situation since I don't know the details, but it's very likely this is fully legal. See Oracle / Java API lawsuit, garage door opener suit, etc. To see where the lines sit.

kyrra 1y ago
I think your analogies are wrong. There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth. Microsoft does not need to provide access for downloading plugins from their servers to anyone else.
- mrpopo 1y ago
  I am quite confident that the bandwidth cost is absolutely not a concern for Microsoft, and that the obvious goal is for them to capture the market. The "C/C++" extension github repository is 4MB. Probably the download size for the extension itself is a fraction of that, but I won't bother measuring. It was downloaded 400 times over the last minute (there is a live counter on the extension page [0]). [0] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.cpptools https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscod... That's a 25MB/s or 200Mb/s bandwidth, for one of the most popular extensions. Multiply by the top 10 extensions and you get the bandwidth of an average home optic fiber connection...
  - infecto 1y ago
    I am glad you have insider knowledge to be so confident. I would rather those costs go towards furthering VS Code than helping out Cursor. This comes from someone who uses Cursor and not the biggest fan of MSFT. Pure speculation but I would see the more logical argument being Cursor is a for pay product, why should they have access to the marketplace?

bitbasher 1y ago

Fun fact, adblockers are often a violation to ToS as well. Should we all uninstall them?

bangaladore 1y ago
I have no problem with you violating TOS. But a corporation openly doing it is problematic. I get Microsoft is a Megacorp, but I don't think too highly of all these ai startups either.
- bitbasher 1y ago
  I don't like the AI startups either. My main concern is this behavior being normalized and the non-AI startups (or open source projects) getting shafted.