4 ms·

I'm sure some (many?) will disagree with me but: VSCode is Android. Or rather, VSCode's source is AOSP and the marketplace, plugins, etc are Google Play Servic

I'm sure some (many?) will disagree with me but: VSCode is Android. Or rather, VSCode's source is AOSP and the marketplace, plugins, etc are Google Play Services. I say that with maximum derision.

38 2y ago
as someone who has reversed the Google Play Services API, its utterly evil and you are correct that its about as far from open source as you can get
- jillyboel 2y ago
  Can you please elaborate? Would love to hear more.
ghuntley 2y ago
you are correct. vscode (mit) is utterly evil - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43786380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43786380
amadeuspagel 2y ago
> VSCode is Android Yes, an open source project that creates immense value, but fails to fulfill some purist fantasy.
- dizhn 2y ago
  Like have a working keyboard?
  - JLCarveth 2y ago
    My android phone doesn't have a working keyboard?
    - 3np 2y ago
      You use stock Android Open Source keyboard, not closed-sourced Gboard? Can you type in Chinese?
      - blackoil 2y ago
        China doesn't uses Google services. Am sure they can type in Chinese.
        jhanschoo 2y ago
        Those Android phones are loaded with their manufacturer's Chinese IME, not a completely open-source one.
        numpad0 2y ago
        CJK languages need language-specific AI conversion engines for any kind of typing. Which OSS versions exist for Japanese, I don't know for Chineses(CN/HK/TW - IIUC they're slightly divergent beyond fonts).
  - charcircuit 2y ago
    Components that are not used, that almost always get replaced by vendors do not get much love. That the base AOSP should be optimized to use out of the box is a purist fantasy. In reality AOSP is made with the understanding that vendors are going to customize it. A lot of Android is designed to be modular, you can easily install a different keyboard app.
- throwup238 2y ago
  > Yes, an open source project that creates immense value, but fails to fulfill some purist fantasy. Yes, a purist fantasy of an open source project that functions without closed source proprietary blobs. Oh, the horror! Won't somebody think of the children!?
- goku12 2y ago
  I would immediately jump ship if I could buy a phone that supports a truly free OS. Instead, I'm stuck with an option between a reasonably-secure, but completely locked-down phone (both hardware and software) with an exorbitant life-long cost and semi-locked-down phones with a pseudo-FOSS OS, whose main business is to my leak personal data for a dozen companies. Honestly, the only reason why Android (and iOS) reign unchallenged is because of their iron grip over the hardware ecosystem.
  - teddyh 2y ago
    > I would immediately jump ship if I could buy a phone that supports a truly free OS. Is your definition of “Phone” equivalent to “must run apps (non-emulated) for iPhone and/or Android”? Otherwise, I mean, these things do exist: <https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/>
    - goku12 2y ago
      My definition of a phone platform is that a reasonable app ecosystem must exist. Or at least the ability to easily develop the ones I need - I don't mind developing for my needs. If a more secure phone without a substantial app ecosystem is enough, then a feature phone would be fine. Librem phone unfortunately doesn't meet that requirement. The difficulty is that even many essential service APIs are not open to alternative implementations.
- tuyiown 2y ago
  I've yet to see any immense success based on the open source part of android. Its value and main goal is to suffocate any initiative on mobile space, call it immense if you will, but I concede it certainly works.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    We can't possibly be Anti-competitive! We give it away for free! "
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- p0w3n3d 2y ago
  an open source project that creates immense value, but fails to be open source
lenerdenator 2y ago
I mean, it's Microsoft. We all knew that to an extent going in. Google, on the other hand, pretended to be the FOSS crusader while setting themselves up for a ton of vendor lock-in that would not only have gotten 90s MS convicted on antitrust, but Bill Gates crucified on the National Mall.
ohgr 2y ago
A good analogy. I always felt a little dirty using VScode. Back to tmux, vim a few months back like it has been for the last 20 odd years.
- cdelsolar 2y ago
  How do you run Cline on it
  - ohgr 2y ago
    I don’t use any AI agents to write code. I spend most of my time undoing shit shows left by people who do.
    - cdelsolar 2y ago
      oh ok
  - eMPee584 2y ago
    codium (now windsurf?) has a vim plugin : )
    - owebmaster 2y ago
      Codeium changed names to windsurf, Codium is still the same
  - otabdeveloper4 2y ago
    There's lots of different AI agents now. It's not rocket science and conceptually they're all built the same.
lowbloodsugar 2y ago
Maybe I'm just old, but I find it so strange that you have to compare something from Microsoft to something else to indicate how evil it is. It's Microsoft.

I'm sure some (many?) will disagree with me but: VSCode is Android. Or rather, VSCode's source is AOSP and the marketplace, plugins, etc are Google Play Services. I say that with maximum derision.

38 2y ago

as someone who has reversed the Google Play Services API, its utterly evil and you are correct that its about as far from open source as you can get

jillyboel 2y ago
Can you please elaborate? Would love to hear more.

ghuntley 2y ago

you are correct. vscode (mit) is utterly evil - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43786380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43786380

amadeuspagel 2y ago

> VSCode is Android Yes, an open source project that creates immense value, but fails to fulfill some purist fantasy.

dizhn 2y ago
Like have a working keyboard?
- JLCarveth 2y ago
  My android phone doesn't have a working keyboard?
  - 3np 2y ago
    You use stock Android Open Source keyboard, not closed-sourced Gboard? Can you type in Chinese?
    - blackoil 2y ago
      China doesn't uses Google services. Am sure they can type in Chinese.
      - jhanschoo 2y ago
        Those Android phones are loaded with their manufacturer's Chinese IME, not a completely open-source one.
      - numpad0 2y ago
        CJK languages need language-specific AI conversion engines for any kind of typing. Which OSS versions exist for Japanese, I don't know for Chineses(CN/HK/TW - IIUC they're slightly divergent beyond fonts).
- charcircuit 2y ago
  Components that are not used, that almost always get replaced by vendors do not get much love. That the base AOSP should be optimized to use out of the box is a purist fantasy. In reality AOSP is made with the understanding that vendors are going to customize it. A lot of Android is designed to be modular, you can easily install a different keyboard app.
throwup238 2y ago
> Yes, an open source project that creates immense value, but fails to fulfill some purist fantasy. Yes, a purist fantasy of an open source project that functions without closed source proprietary blobs. Oh, the horror! Won't somebody think of the children!?
goku12 2y ago
I would immediately jump ship if I could buy a phone that supports a truly free OS. Instead, I'm stuck with an option between a reasonably-secure, but completely locked-down phone (both hardware and software) with an exorbitant life-long cost and semi-locked-down phones with a pseudo-FOSS OS, whose main business is to my leak personal data for a dozen companies. Honestly, the only reason why Android (and iOS) reign unchallenged is because of their iron grip over the hardware ecosystem.
- teddyh 2y ago
  > I would immediately jump ship if I could buy a phone that supports a truly free OS. Is your definition of “Phone” equivalent to “must run apps (non-emulated) for iPhone and/or Android”? Otherwise, I mean, these things do exist: <https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/>
  - goku12 2y ago
    My definition of a phone platform is that a reasonable app ecosystem must exist. Or at least the ability to easily develop the ones I need - I don't mind developing for my needs. If a more secure phone without a substantial app ecosystem is enough, then a feature phone would be fine. Librem phone unfortunately doesn't meet that requirement. The difficulty is that even many essential service APIs are not open to alternative implementations.
tuyiown 2y ago
I've yet to see any immense success based on the open source part of android. Its value and main goal is to suffocate any initiative on mobile space, call it immense if you will, but I concede it certainly works.
- genewitch 2y ago
  We can't possibly be Anti-competitive! We give it away for free! "
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
p0w3n3d 2y ago
an open source project that creates immense value, but fails to be open source

lenerdenator 2y ago

I mean, it's Microsoft. We all knew that to an extent going in. Google, on the other hand, pretended to be the FOSS crusader while setting themselves up for a ton of vendor lock-in that would not only have gotten 90s MS convicted on antitrust, but Bill Gates crucified on the National Mall.

ohgr 2y ago

A good analogy. I always felt a little dirty using VScode. Back to tmux, vim a few months back like it has been for the last 20 odd years.

cdelsolar 2y ago
How do you run Cline on it
- ohgr 2y ago
  I don’t use any AI agents to write code. I spend most of my time undoing shit shows left by people who do.
  - cdelsolar 2y ago
    oh ok
- eMPee584 2y ago
  codium (now windsurf?) has a vim plugin : )
  - owebmaster 2y ago
    Codeium changed names to windsurf, Codium is still the same
- otabdeveloper4 2y ago
  There's lots of different AI agents now. It's not rocket science and conceptually they're all built the same.

lowbloodsugar 2y ago

Maybe I'm just old, but I find it so strange that you have to compare something from Microsoft to something else to indicate how evil it is. It's Microsoft.