4 ms·

Agreed. I am a millennial, so most likely older than the author. Not having envelopes at the ready is one thing, but ordering stamps... on eBay??? And then was

by palata 2y ago

Agreed. I am a millennial, so most likely older than the author. Not having envelopes at the ready is one thing, but ordering stamps... on eBay??? And then wasting a few envelopes because writing down the address is unusual? That kind of blew my mind. I am a software engineer, and I always have a paper notebook and a pen next to my keyboard to write down stuff. I guess this all tells me I'm getting old :-).

alias_neo 2y ago
> but ordering stamps... on eBay OP was ordering US stamps to include _in_ the letter, on an SAE (self-addressed envelope) they were sending _from_ the UK, so that the FSF could reply (from the US) using said stamps. As a millennial myself, I have no idea where else I'd look for <recipient country> stamps should I want to include them on a SAE I was sending to said country, so that they recipient wouldn't incur the cost of replying to me. I don't find looking on eBay particularly strange, though I'd do a quick search for alternatives first.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Sure but, on the other hand, this was overly kind of him. In general, unless it is explicitely requested that you must provide a stamped envelope for the reply the assumption of snail mail is that each side pays for its own envelopes and stamps.
  - palata 2y ago
    And you could also put a dollars bill in the envelope?
    - FeepingCreature 2y ago
      From the UK...?
      - pansa2 2y ago
        The Post Office will sell you US currency, but AFAIK not US stamps.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - dmurray 2y ago
        Perhaps a couple of grams of silver?
    - wongarsu 2y ago
      How to get accountants to hate you in one easy step
- mjevans 2y ago
  Offhand, I don't think I've ever mailed an International letter or package. Is return postage something that, normally, my local post office would help me with? E.G. do they have some method of marking or adding post to a package that would be accepted globally (or at least within the destination country)?
  - ahazred8ta 2y ago
    -
    - Lex-2008 2y ago
      yep, article also mentions them: > I was disappointed to find out that the UK’s Royal Mail discontinued international reply coupons in 2011. The only alternative that I could think of was to buy some US stamps.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    That's the International Reply Coupon mentioned in the article, but it's not supported by all countries. I think I've sent far more international letters and parcels than domestic. Christmas cards for elderly relatives in the country I was born in, and postcards when I travelled abroad. Some obscure things I sold on eBay were mostly sent abroad.
    - mjevans 2y ago
      """ United Kingdom The Royal Mail stopped selling IRCs on 31 December 2011[26] due to a lack of demand. United States The United States Postal Service stopped selling international reply coupons on 27 January 2013.[27] """ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon#Uni... That explains why I was confounded in my efforts to search within USPS results.
  - dl9999 2y ago
    I send $3 U.S. with QSL (ham radio) cards. It seems like everybody is able to convert that to local currency to cover postage.
- Someone 2y ago
  > I have no idea where else I'd look for <recipient country> stamps should I want to include them on a SAE I was sending to said country I would try to buy them online from their post office. For the USA, there is https://www.usps.com/business/postage-options.htm https://www.usps.com/business/postage-options.htm: “Print Labels Online with Click-N-Ship With your free USPS.com account, you can pay for postage and print just one label or a batch of shipping labels online” Germany has (https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/germany-news/deutsche-post-now-lets-you-pay-postage-their-app https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/germany-news/deutsche-pos...): “You simply need to open the app, select the appropriate postage service, tick “Code for labelling” (Code zum Beschriften), and pay with PayPal. You will then immediately receive a code, consisting of the letters #PORTO and an eight-digit string, which you must write in pen in the top right-hand corner of the envelope or postcard. Then, just pop it in the post box, and you’re done! The code is valid for 14 days and can only be used for Germany-bound mail.” That 14-day limit may not be a good idea for this use case.
  - kalleboo 2y ago
    That German app is not available in the App Store in my country (and I presume in any country other than Germany), so I would also be forced to go to eBay for stamps
    - Someone 2y ago
      Then I would Google for an alternative, and find https://shop.deutschepost.de/briefversand/briefmarken/briefmarken-international https://shop.deutschepost.de/briefversand/briefmarken/briefm...
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    that honestly seems more complicated and likely to fail than just buying the correct stamps on ebay.
  - wbl 2y ago
    You use an International Reply Coupon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon
cameronh90 2y ago
The author in the UK so it's pretty much a given that they're exaggerating for comedic effect, but... living in the UK myself, I have only sent maybe about 5 letters in my life, all to the government bureaucracy, and none more recently than a decade ago. And I'm a millennial, albeit on the younger side (so I tell myself). I don't have any pens, paper or a printer in my house, so I'd probably go to my workplace if I needed to send a letter nowadays. I do occasionally send a parcel though, which involves printing off a shipping label, so the process isn't completely alien.
- pbhjpbhj 2y ago
  We don't have a printer at home (UK), sending parcels is the only time we'd need it but our small local post office prints labels (eg for Amazon returns, or parcel companies). I did print a page at work recently, the second one since I started my job 5 years ago.
  - cameronh90 2y ago
    Most of the time I have to send parcels now, I use those drop off lockers where you just put it in the right cubbyhole and - I guess - they label it when they pick it up. Otherwise, most couriers will do label on pickup, or the return label is included with the delivery in the first place. Very occasionally there's no other option but to find some way of printing it myself. I did have a small inkjet printer at one point, but the ink kept drying up, so in the end it was costing me £10 and a trip to Tesco every time I needed to print something. Thought about getting a laser, but it's quite a lot of space to waste on something I use so rarely. I might get one of those little thermal printers that are small enough to keep in a drawer.
- SpaceNoodled 2y ago
  It's bizarre to hear about people not even having a single pen, like the author. What's the last time you ever used one? What is your daily life like?
  - cameronh90 2y ago
grishka 2y ago
I'm also a millennial software engineer but I usually write stuff down to text files. I do use pen and paper to draw things if that helps my understanding of them. Like when there's geometry involved. Sending letters isn't an alien concept to me either. I'm old enough to have done it regularly as a kid. I especially liked the part where you have to write the zip code in those machine-readable digits.
- eru 2y ago
  > I especially liked the part where you have to write the zip code in those machine-readable digits. How long ago was that? The machine have gotten really good at deciphering regular handwriting quite a while ago.
- SpaceNoodled 2y ago
  When and where were you required to write the ZIP so strangely? I've never heard of such a bizarre requirement.
  - grishka 2y ago
    Russia. It's still a thing most likely. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_postal_codes.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_postal_codes...
    - SpaceNoodled 2y ago
      Fascinating, thanks!
    - palata 2y ago
      That is cool!
eru 2y ago
> And then wasting a few envelopes because writing down the address is unusual? That kind of blew my mind. Some people really have terrible hand writing. And dyslexia is a thing, too.
- layer8 2y ago
  That weren’t the reasons stated, though.
qingcharles 2y ago
I actually buy all my stamps on eBay. You can buy legit Forever USA stamps at below market rates.
spoonsort 2y ago
Nah, I'm young and even to me the author's just on the extreme side of "digital native". The first thing I saw in the article was this and knew it was fake, too: "Considering the storage constraints back then" (he's just repeating it, he doesn't know if it's actually applicable). And now you know why random blogs, while insightful, shouldn't be treated as gold truth.

by palata 2y ago

alias_neo 2y ago

> but ordering stamps... on eBay OP was ordering US stamps to include _in_ the letter, on an SAE (self-addressed envelope) they were sending _from_ the UK, so that the FSF could reply (from the US) using said stamps. As a millennial myself, I have no idea where else I'd look for <recipient country> stamps should I want to include them on a SAE I was sending to said country, so that they recipient wouldn't incur the cost of replying to me. I don't find looking on eBay particularly strange, though I'd do a quick search for alternatives first.

mytailorisrich 2y ago
Sure but, on the other hand, this was overly kind of him. In general, unless it is explicitely requested that you must provide a stamped envelope for the reply the assumption of snail mail is that each side pays for its own envelopes and stamps.
- palata 2y ago
  And you could also put a dollars bill in the envelope?
  - FeepingCreature 2y ago
    From the UK...?
    - pansa2 2y ago
      The Post Office will sell you US currency, but AFAIK not US stamps.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - dmurray 2y ago
      Perhaps a couple of grams of silver?
  - wongarsu 2y ago
    How to get accountants to hate you in one easy step
mjevans 2y ago
Offhand, I don't think I've ever mailed an International letter or package. Is return postage something that, normally, my local post office would help me with? E.G. do they have some method of marking or adding post to a package that would be accepted globally (or at least within the destination country)?
- ahazred8ta 2y ago
  -
  - Lex-2008 2y ago
    yep, article also mentions them: > I was disappointed to find out that the UK’s Royal Mail discontinued international reply coupons in 2011. The only alternative that I could think of was to buy some US stamps.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  That's the International Reply Coupon mentioned in the article, but it's not supported by all countries. I think I've sent far more international letters and parcels than domestic. Christmas cards for elderly relatives in the country I was born in, and postcards when I travelled abroad. Some obscure things I sold on eBay were mostly sent abroad.
  - mjevans 2y ago
    """ United Kingdom The Royal Mail stopped selling IRCs on 31 December 2011[26] due to a lack of demand. United States The United States Postal Service stopped selling international reply coupons on 27 January 2013.[27] """ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon#Uni... That explains why I was confounded in my efforts to search within USPS results.
- dl9999 2y ago
  I send $3 U.S. with QSL (ham radio) cards. It seems like everybody is able to convert that to local currency to cover postage.
Someone 2y ago
> I have no idea where else I'd look for <recipient country> stamps should I want to include them on a SAE I was sending to said country I would try to buy them online from their post office. For the USA, there is https://www.usps.com/business/postage-options.htm https://www.usps.com/business/postage-options.htm: “Print Labels Online with Click-N-Ship With your free USPS.com account, you can pay for postage and print just one label or a batch of shipping labels online” Germany has (https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/germany-news/deutsche-post-now-lets-you-pay-postage-their-app https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/germany-news/deutsche-pos...): “You simply need to open the app, select the appropriate postage service, tick “Code for labelling” (Code zum Beschriften), and pay with PayPal. You will then immediately receive a code, consisting of the letters #PORTO and an eight-digit string, which you must write in pen in the top right-hand corner of the envelope or postcard. Then, just pop it in the post box, and you’re done! The code is valid for 14 days and can only be used for Germany-bound mail.” That 14-day limit may not be a good idea for this use case.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  That German app is not available in the App Store in my country (and I presume in any country other than Germany), so I would also be forced to go to eBay for stamps
  - Someone 2y ago
    Then I would Google for an alternative, and find https://shop.deutschepost.de/briefversand/briefmarken/briefmarken-international https://shop.deutschepost.de/briefversand/briefmarken/briefm...
- Suppafly 2y ago
  that honestly seems more complicated and likely to fail than just buying the correct stamps on ebay.
- wbl 2y ago
  You use an International Reply Coupon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon

cameronh90 2y ago

The author in the UK so it's pretty much a given that they're exaggerating for comedic effect, but... living in the UK myself, I have only sent maybe about 5 letters in my life, all to the government bureaucracy, and none more recently than a decade ago. And I'm a millennial, albeit on the younger side (so I tell myself). I don't have any pens, paper or a printer in my house, so I'd probably go to my workplace if I needed to send a letter nowadays. I do occasionally send a parcel though, which involves printing off a shipping label, so the process isn't completely alien.

pbhjpbhj 2y ago
We don't have a printer at home (UK), sending parcels is the only time we'd need it but our small local post office prints labels (eg for Amazon returns, or parcel companies). I did print a page at work recently, the second one since I started my job 5 years ago.
- cameronh90 2y ago
  Most of the time I have to send parcels now, I use those drop off lockers where you just put it in the right cubbyhole and - I guess - they label it when they pick it up. Otherwise, most couriers will do label on pickup, or the return label is included with the delivery in the first place. Very occasionally there's no other option but to find some way of printing it myself. I did have a small inkjet printer at one point, but the ink kept drying up, so in the end it was costing me £10 and a trip to Tesco every time I needed to print something. Thought about getting a laser, but it's quite a lot of space to waste on something I use so rarely. I might get one of those little thermal printers that are small enough to keep in a drawer.
SpaceNoodled 2y ago
It's bizarre to hear about people not even having a single pen, like the author. What's the last time you ever used one? What is your daily life like?
- cameronh90 2y ago

grishka 2y ago

I'm also a millennial software engineer but I usually write stuff down to text files. I do use pen and paper to draw things if that helps my understanding of them. Like when there's geometry involved. Sending letters isn't an alien concept to me either. I'm old enough to have done it regularly as a kid. I especially liked the part where you have to write the zip code in those machine-readable digits.

eru 2y ago
> I especially liked the part where you have to write the zip code in those machine-readable digits. How long ago was that? The machine have gotten really good at deciphering regular handwriting quite a while ago.
SpaceNoodled 2y ago
When and where were you required to write the ZIP so strangely? I've never heard of such a bizarre requirement.
- grishka 2y ago
  Russia. It's still a thing most likely. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_postal_codes.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_postal_codes...
  - SpaceNoodled 2y ago
    Fascinating, thanks!
  - palata 2y ago
    That is cool!

eru 2y ago

> And then wasting a few envelopes because writing down the address is unusual? That kind of blew my mind. Some people really have terrible hand writing. And dyslexia is a thing, too.

layer8 2y ago
That weren’t the reasons stated, though.

qingcharles 2y ago

I actually buy all my stamps on eBay. You can buy legit Forever USA stamps at below market rates.

spoonsort 2y ago

Nah, I'm young and even to me the author's just on the extreme side of "digital native". The first thing I saw in the article was this and knew it was fake, too: "Considering the storage constraints back then" (he's just repeating it, he doesn't know if it's actually applicable). And now you know why random blogs, while insightful, shouldn't be treated as gold truth.