12 ms·

Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

147 points by ingve 2y ago

Animats 2y ago
I run an older Android phone without a Google account. All apps are from F-Droid. Google services are all turned off. Mail is Thunderbird, browser is Fennec. Is it still possible to initialize an Android phone without a Google account?
- codethief 2y ago
  Yes, it is.
- Nux 2y ago
  Yes, I do this routinely. Check devices supported by 3rd party distros like LineageOS which out of the box have no Google services. Ironically Pixel phones are very well supported. Xiaomi, OnePlus, too. There are quite a few: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
  - amaccuish 2y ago
    It should be said though that only Pixel, Fairphone, and maybe some Motorolas support relocking the bootloader with a custom OS. Without that ability, anyone can plug in to your phone and write whatever they want to the internal flash and your phone will be none the wiser.
    - lucb1e 2y ago
      Happens to me all the time. Also on laptops, secureboot is such a life saver any time you're out and about ...it's sure nice this exists and is available to anyone but it's not seriously a risk if you're not of interest to people who are willing to physically show up and bug your hardware in a way that requires quite a bit of preparation
    - Klonoar 2y ago
      Some Sony models (not the Verizon one last sold in the USA) should too, no?
    - JCattheATM 2y ago
      The OnePlus6T supports it, it will still display a warning but it will be locked.
  - amelius 2y ago
    Routinely? How often do you buy a new phone? :) Or maybe it is because mobile computing is just stuck, and it won't move even in decades ...
    - Nux 2y ago
      Alright, perhaps "routinely" is a strong word, but all my phones run non-stock and I don't buy devices I can't do this on. All in all I must have installed 3rd party roms on 6-7 devices with good results.
- lawn 2y ago
  Lookup LineageOS and CalyxOS. I use CalyxOS with MicroG and can download apps from the app store without a Google account or Google services (although some apps won't work without them of course).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- blackbear_ 2y ago
  > Is it still possible to initialize an Android phone without a Google account? Totally, get a Pixel phone and put GrapheneOS on it. You get state of the art hardware and the latest Android hardened for privacy and with optional Google services. That is, you can install and remove them anytime like any other app.
  - Animats 2y ago
    Do you have to install a whole new distro? I just managed to get past the signup screen, then deleted the "first use" app and disabled Google's apps.
    - blackbear_ 2y ago
      Yes, you need to flash their image. They have a web installer from the browser and the process is relatively straightforward: https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web
- wishfish 2y ago
  Recently picked up a Moto G Power 2024 as a cheap way to play around with Android. Never signed in with Google. Use Thunderbird / Firefox. Mixplorer for files. Most Google services & apps disabled. Use Obtanium as my main way to install apps, with a few from F-droid too. Have Aurora for anonymous Play if I need it but so far have just used it for Dropbox. At the heart of this is Netguard. I'm using this firewall as a whitelist. Blocking network for everything except for the things I approve. So far, this seems to be working well. It's been a great experience. Have ended up using this device more than my iPhone. Still has the stock ROM but, with the bad stuff disabled, it hasn't gotten in my way. This feels like it's truly my own device in a way that's rare these days. Main drawback is the lack of future updates.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  Easily ? I recently bought a Samsung Galaxy S21 as a backup and am posting from it right now (from Firefox). Never associated a Google account. The issue is that it's just a stop-gap solution : we ought to strive to remove our dependence on Android/iOS(/Xiaomi) entirely.
- QuantumNoodle 2y ago
  Get a pixel and immediately flash GrapheneOS. The appeal of GrapheneOS is it uses the same AOSP android that Google uses, but with all Google things stripped out. So you have 1st class support for all firmware and software features and a really polished experience out of the box. You even get to use things like the awesome Google camera that doesn't phone home. You can even sandbox some Google services to get things like maps working.
OsrsNeedsf2P 2y ago
This website is hostile to scrolling on mobile, I've never seen a worse UX pattern in my life. But for me, I see so much potential in Linux phones, but after waiting decades for the Linux desktop to pickup, I won't hold my breath.
- godelski 2y ago
  I blocked reader mode and it worked fine. Not an excuse, but it is common for sites to not work well for phones. I find it a bit surprising these days but hey, Wikipedia knows how to redirect desktop links to mobile versions but not the reverse and they have the great foresight to add an automatic option to dark mode settings but wild idiocy to set the default configuration to light mode. I guess I'm with you man. I'm often baffled at how much low hanging fruit never gets fixed
- ozgrakkurt 2y ago
  Linux desktop is very pleasant to use now compared to 5 years before. I tried a lot of times to switch to linux before but it never stuck, now I use only linux on my desktop. But need all that software for phones, make it compatible, stable, easy to install etc. maybe it will happen if some company invests in it. Like gaming on linux and valve
- d3Xt3r 2y ago
  > after waiting decades for the Linux desktop to pickup Linux desktops are very much usable now, especially if you choose a competent DE like KDE, and a decent distro (ie, not Ubuntu). Is there anything particular you find the Linux desktop still lacks majorly, preventing you from switching?
  - staunton 2y ago
    What's wrong with Ubuntu?
    - d3Xt3r 2y ago
      Canonical keeps doing stupid, anti-user, anti-community stuff constantly, to the point that many people consider them to be the Microsoft of the Linux world. For instance, not long ago, they were including ads/Amazon results in the Apps menu[1], similar to what Microsoft did with the Start menu. They also keep sneaking in suggestions (aka ads) for their Ubuntu Pro subscription in various places like the MOTD, or when you run apt[2], which isn't cool. Most recently, the biggest annoyance is with the way they've been aggressively pushing their Snap store, to the point of even hijacking regular "apt install" commands - normally, you'd expect an "apt install" to fetch a regular .deb from the distro's repos, but they silently hijack the command to fetch apps from their Snap store instead[3]. Now, you may think that normal, non-technical users don't need to care about Snaps - and you'd be right, if they actually worked well. Snaps are slow and buggy and have been a constant source of pain for many users[4]. A major issue is with how buggy Ubuntu has become, especially OS upgrades, which may result in anything from minor issues like broken shortcuts, to complete breakage[5]. This might lead you to think that it's better to do a fresh install, but of late, new ISO releases have been incredibly buggy - like the 24.04 LTS installer, which kept crashing for many users[6] - and considering that LTS is supposed to be the super-stable version, that is not a good user experience. Finally, my pet peeve is with how commercial Canonical have become, like with pushing their Pro subscriptions to targeting enterprises over end users. A couple of months ago, someone was complaining about how confusing the website had become, where the first "download" button you saw wasn't for the Ubuntu ISO, but some enterprise crap. Everything on the website just screamed "corporate"[7]. It feels like Canonical has long shed it's newbie-friendly image and turned into a soulless corporation, not unlike Microsoft. [1] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/mark-shuttleworth-explains-ubuntus-new-amazon-adware-feature https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/mark-shuttleworth-explai... [2] https://linuxiac.com/ubuntu-once-again-angered-users-by-placing-ads/ https://linuxiac.com/ubuntu-once-again-angered-users-by-plac... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLDQA2f1GM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLDQA2f1GM4 [4] https://rl.bloat.cat/r/linux4noobs/comments/1cgw11u/snaps_are_slow_laggy_garbage/ https://rl.bloat.cat/r/linux4noobs/comments/1cgw11u/snaps_ar... [5] https://ounapuu.ee/posts/2025/02/05/done-with-ubuntu/ https://ounapuu.ee/posts/2025/02/05/done-with-ubuntu/ [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1__qfYXtv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1__qfYXtv0 [7] https://bsky.app/profile/mary.my.id/post/3lghc4rjqg2vd https://bsky.app/profile/mary.my.id/post/3lghc4rjqg2vd
Tepix 2y ago
Isn't every Android phone a Linux phone? OK, i guess we want something that is less encumbered and more transparent with more digital sovereignty for the user than the Android that we get from the various big phone vendors. What's the difference between an AOSP Android phone and a Linux phone? For me, there is no substantial difference. The Android based phone is likely to be way more usable the various "Linux phones". The linked article states "Linux phones and their apps are all open-source and do not depend on ads or surveillance to sustain some nefarious business model, which means there is much privacy to be won." but this also applies to AOSP Android devices with open source apps. In other words: If you seek a Linux phone, why aren't you picking GrapheneOS or LineageOS? Is there anything else that's missing?
- forty 2y ago
  GrapheneOS only supports a few specific Google phones, so it's not an option for most cases
  - quotemstr 2y ago
    It still makes zero sense to take the XDG/dbus/whatever stack and make it run on a phone, suboptimally, when AOSP is right there and has already solved all the thousands of integration issues you'll run into --- plus, it's already free software. NIH is the only rationale for the "Linux" phone thing and it's why it will be forever fringe. People working on "Linux" phones as anything more than a diversion (why not play Factorio instead?) are wasting their time.
    - hnlmorg 2y ago
      I agree with your overall point but the following comment is unnecessary: > People working on "Linux" phones as anything more than a diversion (why not play Factorio instead?) are wasting their time. People are free to spent their free time however they want. Some people view building things, whether it’s furniture or software, more enjoyable than playing computer games or watching TV.
    - aragilar 2y ago
mpol 2y ago
Anyone using PostmarketOS on a phone? And I mean as a daily driver, with no other phone. I have been following it for years and would like to switch someday, but that moment hasn't happened yet. Currently I use Sailfish from Jolla on a Sony phone. For a linux phone, it serves my needs. I would be open to change.
- carpenecopinum 2y ago
  I have a OnePlus 6 becoming "free" soon and I will definitely give PostmarketOS a shot (I had a glance at their compatibility list and noticed the OP6 is on there). Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
- turtleyacht 2y ago
  Here is one recent report after using PinePhone with PostmarketOS and Phosh for a few years: Daily Driving a Linux Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43750756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43750756 - 2 days ago (3 points, 2 comments)
- vmaurin 2y ago
  I do, a Oneplus 6, PMOS "edge" with OpenRC + Phosh. Everything is fine, except I still need to reboot the phone after each call to be sure to have the audio working
  - d3Xt3r 2y ago
    How is 4G calling (VoLTE) these days? Last I heard it needed quite a bit of a manual work to get it going.
    - bionade24 2y ago
      Sailfish(OS) supports VoLTE in newer, supported devices. For community ports and other mobile Linux distros it's afaik still rare. Closed drivers and obtaining configurations for carriers in other countries are the 2 big showstoppers.
- Piraty 2y ago
greatgib 2y ago
If you want a Linux phone that could be your daily driver, I would highly recommend the furiphone of furilabs (https://furilabs.com/ https://furilabs.com/). I got one from the Fosdem and it is truly amazing! Contrary to previous things I tried, like the pinephone, this one is really totally usable for everyday with everything that you could need (phone, SMS, 4g/5g, ...). Especially, for one time it has a very good camera, on par with some Xiaomi phones, that is really ok when you like to take pictures. Basically, it is a kind of a debian, but there is something very amazing, waydroid, that allows to run Android apps like if it was native apps but with full control other their rights, like being in a sandbox. The only issue that is not really solvable is that a lot of apps are requiring the Google integrity verification shit, so your are forced to connect with your Google account to the play store or Google services to be able to use them. Like these shitty OpenAI and Mistral apps...
- genewitch 2y ago
  > so your are forced to connect with your Google account Slight adjustment to your verbiage: you are forced to interact with Google, but I don't recall having to give a phone number for emulators. Then again, one didn't need a microsofr account to use windows until recently, so I might be wrong. Tablets and things like x86 android exist so I don't know that Google can enforce phone numbers anyhow, if you want a separate login for each device...
  - greatgib 2y ago
    It is not that you have to "interact" with Google the problem, in the sense of interacting like downloading an app. You can use the Aurora store, but once you try to use the app, the app itself will redirect you to an oauth2 login for your Google account, the kind that is associating your "phone"/Google service globally with your Google account. And this despite the fact that I will only use password login for openai and mistral, that should not be linked to Google anyway. In addition with integrity verification, I can easily think that they are using it for "push notifications" that will also travel through Google. So, it is not only that you will have to "interact" with Google, but the fact that you will be forced to let Google track you: which phone you use, which ip, which app with which account, used when, where, ...". That defects a little bit the purpose to have a "free" phone if you still have to give your data to Google. So the problem is the "push" not the "pull".
spencerflem 2y ago
One of these days I'll get a phone that can run Genode's Sculpt Movile OS.
Uptrenda 2y ago
Good luck. Almost every service you need for a smart phone to be "smart" anything requires being part of the Google or Apple botnet. Yeah, you can install whatever crap you like on your phone. Maybe it will do SMS? Kewl. Want maps, mobile banking, 2-factor auth, different password managers, music streaming, and so on... good luck without one of the app stores. Also, being unplugged sometimes means your phone won't even work for calling beyond SMS. Since its baked into the ROM image and you have to hope that the devs have added support for your hardware. So you trade a smart phone (a useful device for the modern world) for a goofy neckbeard terminal in your pocket (too small to be used for any complex input.)
- immibis 2y ago
  You can do a lot of this on the web. Hang on, did you just cite 2-factor auth as something that requires a proprietary app? And password managers?
  - instagib 2y ago
    Some countries have a high number of scams. You need to physically go to a bank, verify multiple forms of id, facial scan, get their app with facial recognition, and hope your face does not deviate when traveling. A relative gained 20lbs traveling and facial recognition failed. They had to ask a friend to pay their bills and go back to their home country to re-verify everything. Some companies require specific apps for authentication too.
  - Arnavion 2y ago
    I actually run Waydroid on my Linux phone because of 2FA. All my personal 2FAs are just TOTPs in a keepassxc DB synced between my phone and my PCs (accessed via gnome-secrets on the phone). But my $dayjob requires MS Authenticator in the "here's a 2-digit number, open MS Authenticator on your phone and type them in to approve" mode, so I have to run that in waydroid.
nicexe 2y ago
I have a FreeBSD VM on my iPhone but I'm not using it for any phone-related tasks.
- JCattheATM 2y ago
  You couldn't even if you wanted to, right? Doesn't apple have pretty crazy restrictions on VMs?
INTPenis 2y ago
I was daily driving Linux phones 15 years ago! It's crazy to think back on the journey. I have great nostalgia for the Nokia N900 but god damn Maemo/Meego was a piece of shit. When you can't even answer phone calls it's not daily driving anymore, it's beta testing. After that I tried Firefox OS but it was switfly replaced by Android, thank the gods for Android.
- jonesjohnson 2y ago
  Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. My experience with the N900 (and the N9 later) was pretty decent. The N900 was way ahead of its time. I got it in 2010. popped in a 32G µSD-card and I had 64GB, which was already a lot. The UI was amazing. True multitasking on a phone. IIRC the iPhone at that time wasn't able to do that. usable HW keyboard, headphone jack, two cameras, proper two-stage camera button, a little stand to prop it op, replaceable battery, IR emitter (there was a tv-b-gone app!), FM Transmitter to hear audio in any car... It was a (small) brick and the resistive touch display + stylus was not perfect, but okay. The software ecosystem was not good, though. Userbase was small. And when Nokia finally dropped it, it remained the first and last of its kind, so noone was keen on keeping developing for it. Meego was getting better, and Sailfish is actually really ok. I'm "temporarily" (4 years now...) using Android ("/e/os" - what a stupid name), but since I do not want to use any Google Services, I feel that it's always just whack-a-mole to get the app you want running on the device and have it properly working...
  - INTPenis 2y ago
    Both me and my brother had an N900 each and we both had an awful experience with them. My brother worked at Nokia at the time so he's lyrical about Nokia phones to this day.
Distilitron 2y ago
Have read this with one thought: "I don't deseve this shit"
codethief 2y ago
> Many will point out that a Linux phone is less secure than Android or iOS, but that highly depends on your personal threat model. Linux phones and their apps are all open-source and do not depend on ads or surveillance to sustain some nefarious business model, which means there is much privacy to be won. Meanwhile here I am on my Linux machine, constantly anxious that sooner or later one of my bazillion npm and pip dependencies will get compromised, and secretly praying that one day proper sandboxing and an Android-security model will be common on the Linux desktop, so that I can erect security boundaries between my applications and repositories. I find this quote[0] by the developer of SpectrumOS[1] rather telling: <qyliss> I have embarked on the ultimate yak shave <qyliss> it started with "I wish I could securely store passwords on my computer" <qyliss> And now I am at the "I have funding to build my own operating system" level [0]: https://alyssa.is/about/ https://alyssa.is/about/ [1]: https://spectrum-os.org/ https://spectrum-os.org/
- guappa 2y ago
  Firejail and apparmor have existed for years. If you don't use them maybe it's your fault? Also the very same npm backdoors have already hit android apps. What can sandboxing do if you backdoor a dependency of your banking app?
  - aragilar 2y ago
    Or go old-school with multiple users and chroots? You could even install from (and host) a trusted repository, where the source and binaries are vetted (and you can pay people to do this for you).
    - xorcist 2y ago
      Server software is usually compartmentalized in uid:s but desktop software seldom is, if ever. Package managers and maintainers could do a lot here to make it easier. Some things long time Linux users like to do, like running Firefox as a separate user, is still a much more involved process than it should be. A lot of it is probably standards and culture work, like where a user can expect to store files and have them readable by Firefox in this example. So perhaps this is something the GNOME/Freedesktop people could have been interested in and made a difference? Instead we have things like Flatpak, which is good but not the lowest hanging fruit here.
Distilitron 2y ago
And yes this nonencrypted shit is totally insecure
- guappa 2y ago
  While the never fixed 0days on android are completely secure. And let's not forget the several noclick attacks that can root your iphone with a message :)
  - tholdem 2y ago
    How can you compare iOS or Android security with desktop Linux security? Have you checked what it takes to achieve those 0-click root exploits on iOS or Android compared to a desktop Linux distro? Not even in the same league.
    - guappa 2y ago
      Have you checked the time it takes apple or any android vendor to fix anything vs the time it takes a linux distribution? Months vs hours.
      - akimbostrawman 2y ago
        Sounds like a vendor issue also present on desktop. Just get a pixel and enjoy first class update support with GrapheneOS.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  What makes you think it's not encrypted? https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Full_disk_encryption https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Full_disk_encryption seems to indicate that support varies a bit by device but it's perfectly doable.
  - Arnavion 2y ago
    Note that the initramfs is stored without encryption or signing. So while your data won't be leaked when your phone gets stolen, it should be considered compromised if you get it back.
jrflowers 2y ago
I get that the appeal of using a Linux phone is being able to say “my phone is a Linux phone” but you could also just say that about any phone anyway. Most people will just nod when you say that and occasionally somebody will get incandescently angry. That is fine, good even. Variety is the spice of life
Jhsto 2y ago
I have been thinking daily driving Linux phone just to manage smartphone addiction. My first step was to get rid of my MacBook. Now, a year later, I think I'm ready to get rid of the Apple Watch. With the watch, it has been surprising how much you think you need to record your HR and workouts -- but it's just another bogus number that you don't need. Later the year I think I'll be finally ready for the phone. This would happen by getting an iPad mini first, which would stay at home while I go to work with the phone only. I think the hard class of apps to get rid of is mainly "Travel", plus password manager (I use passage but the transition will take time) + Find My. But travel is very much planned in my life, so for those occasions I can take my iPad mini with me.
- saidinesh5 2y ago
  Smartphone addiction usually just means using one or more of the social media apps... (Twitter, YouTube, instagram, reddit etc...) All of them work just fine on the mobile browser on these Linux OSes... What you'll get stuck with is the lack of useful smartphone apps like bank apps, payment apps, navigation apps etc...
- nottorp 2y ago
  > it has been surprising how much you think you need to record your HR and workouts Start a martial art instead :) Things like jewelry, fitness bands and watches aren't generally allowed during training and will only last for a few sessions even if allowed anyway. That should get you used to not monitoring everything.
mft_ 2y ago
But why, indeed. Years ago, I met someone (through another friend) who worked in CS, and was super into digital privacy. He was the first person I knew to run a Linux phone, for privacy reasons. He tried to pay for as much as possible by cash, and maintained his accounts manually on paper. The only way to contact him was by text message (intermittently, unreliably) or via a specific client using the Matrix protocol. My friend and I both installed the client to be able to contact him and maintain a friendship. After a few months, we both lost contact with him simultaneously: something was updated in the client, and it was impossible to re-establish contact with him without a F2F interaction (="privacy"). Sadly, he was also uncontactable by text message. For both of us, the friendship simply ceased to exist. My reflection is that such things --as with many things in life-- are on a spectrum. At some point on the spectrum, as you head towards the extreme end, your position on that spectrum (be it voluntary or --as with disease-- involuntary) start to impair your ability to live (what might be considered) a normal functional life. I'd also hazard that moving towards that extreme end of the spectrum beings increasing small gains, coupled with increasingly large downsides. I'm not suggesting that running a pure Linux phone is extreme, but it's definitely in the middle zone where there are definite downsides.
- mac-attack 2y ago
  I had a similar experience with GrapheneOS. There is a balance in act between continuing down the privacy rabbit hole versus being able to communicate effectively with your social circle and it is easy to double down on privacy at the cost of relationships if you are not aware of how it is affecting others.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    I have my own problems with GrapheneOS, but I thought they made a great effort to make sure that it didn't really have that kind of downside. What problems did you hit?
    - codethief 2y ago
      I suppose that if you use GOS without Google Play Services, you'll have a hard time using lots of services like WhatsApp etc.
MelodyUwU 2y ago
same here, i daily drive linux on my phone, ditched the prioprietary OSs long ago
- jonesjohnson 2y ago
  How are you dealing with companies that force you to use an Android app? There are so many services in daily life where people just expect me to have an Android/iPhone device. Those things are increasingly difficult to achieve in a different way.
  - MelodyUwU 2y ago
    spoiler: i dont. i dont need to, simply. my bank can be accessed fully through the website, and that is how i use it. most services i have i use through email or some other form of interaction that does not require an app. i simply do not use these services, and thus i dont need to even have an app for them. if im lucky, it will work on waydroid, but i dont have a lot inside waydroid. so, yeah, it is easy for me as of now at least.
    - fossman 2y ago
      This is also my approach. I use the bank websites. If any dirty fiat banking cartel or other group try to force their app down my throat, I simply take my money and go elsewhere! This is the only way we can solve this. $$$ is the only language these crooks understand.
  - ctrlc-root 2y ago
    Not the parent but I'll reply for myself. I have a Librem 5 as my personal phone which I take with me when I go places and use as my daily driver. I also have a Pixel running GrapheneOS with work and personal profiles for the few times I need to run an Android application but it more or less permanently stays at my desk. The Android applications I have on that phone are banking (required to use Zelle at my bank) and management applications for various devices (ex: managing settings on my bluetooth headphones). I don't need to use those often and when I do it can wait until I'm back at my desk where my GrapheneOS phone lives.
Y_Y 2y ago
Because Android and iOS serve other masters. Its's not just that this is morally unsound, it's fucking infuriating. Imagine JD Rockefeller had arranged it so that your pen and paper constantly nagged you and tried to trick you into buying things. I'm calling it now, society is going to collapse and it's going to be because of software and hardware working together in tandem to make life miserable and expensive and only accessible through authorized devices and apps for the best possible experience. (I do have a PinePhone Pro, and it has its own problems, but they're merely inconvenient rather than life-draining.)
- hnpolicestate 2y ago
  Digital fascism is the future. The majority don't care. A friend wanted to stream a clip from YouTube with me on discord and actually chose the completely DMR ridden YouTube Discord app instead of just streaming directly from YouTube. Why would someone make that their first choice? I don't know but they do.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    It's the present, for several years. And if you're connecting discord with youtube you've already lost. :-D
- verisimi 2y ago
  Fascism is our actual governance system - if you define it as 'government and corporations working together', as Mussolini did. It is just that we are mostly under the illusion that we live in a democracy. It is long in the planning that software and hardware work together - look into technocracy. Smart anything = spy. Smart meters are tools to monitor resource usage. Smart phones are spying/reporting on you. Ai will guide you. You will be irritated and fined to death if you do not conform with the plan. Global warming, terrorists and child porn are the various justifications given to justify whatever-new-loss-of-privacy/resource extraction is required. Even so, individuals will be fine. You don't have to willingly give up your heart and soul to join the borg. That extra yatch/holiday/holiday home will not appease your true self. How many times do you need to come back?
brbcompiling 2y ago
Anyone tried Linux phones for daily use? Not those Android ones, but real Linux. Just wondering how it works in real life compared to Android/iOS?
- m4rtink 2y ago
  Sailfish OS works fine. :)
- fossman 2y ago
  PostmarketOS on a Liberty Phone (upgraded Librem 5) works fine, and just gets better with each major update which is twice a year!
- chainingsolid 2y ago
  I've been reading Hackernews in the morning and call/texting on my Pinephone for a few years now. The polish(and many times functonality) level is far less than Android/iOS. Depending on what you need/want will dictate if you could use it. For example all the Android/iOS only stuff I just ignore. And I haven't yet gotten GPS + maps to work though it seams like quite a bit of that is in place. If you have specific questions I'd be happy to have a go at answering them.
butz 2y ago
Probably a silly question, but what is the smallest modern phone one could get new, to run Linux on and have at least basic phone and sms functionality working?
- craftkiller 2y ago
  I haven't used any of these but unihertz makes some truly tiny android phones. I see that people have put Linux on the titan, but the jelly line is where the really small phones are. Unfortunately, afaict, those are stuck on android for now.
paulcole 2y ago
> Many will point out that a Linux phone is less secure than Android or iOS, but that highly depends on your personal threat model. 99% of people should live their lives without a personal threat model.
throwanem 2y ago
This isn't like a paper notebook at all! I carry two of those every day and they never, ever kernel panic.
yndoendo 2y ago
I too am looking for a Linux phone as a daily to decouple from Google. Currently using a Fairphone with \e\OS. microG is prone to crash on the latest system update but not a big issues. Navigation work just fine too across the USA. Ordered the FuriPhone and tried to get it in before the Tariff Wars. Currently waiting for it to enter shipping limbo from the manufacturer. Hoping that the USA Government's treatment of foreign counties helps ignite the push to move away from Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and others. Linux and BSD are most likely to benefit in the tech transition. Lower cost to bring up infrastructure and features allow for removing larges USA corporations as daily drivers. I'm getting tired of all the Enshitification those companies are jumping on to as the new business model. P.S. We need to stop using the "Gated Community" analogy when speaking of Apple and Google with phones. A real gated community allows owners the addition of more personal security; guards, cameras, and security systems. Apple and Google do not allow owners to improve security; firewall, direct backups, and removal of useless applications. The closet analogy I can come up with is "Prison Community".
tmtvl 2y ago
I have a Volla X22 (or whatever) with Ubuntu Touch. I can send SMS messages, I can call people, and I can listen to music. That's about 80% of what I want a smartphone for taken care of (and the music wouldn't be necessary if there were decent MP3/OGG players which support OPUS, but alas, smartphones killed portable music players). I did jump through some hoops to install Firefox and get it working with the phone's touchscreen keyboard so I can use digital bus tickets rather than physical ones. I also went and installed Waydroid so I can use WhatsApp for my kung fu club when it's needed. There are a couple of bike rental companies in Belgium which require one to install an Android/iPhone app to use their services, but I have decided not to give them the time of day.
kps 2y ago
I don't want a phone, I want a pocket computer (with connectivity).
neilsimp1 2y ago
Still using my Librem 5 (2 years in). Still works. Still like it.
- ctrlc-root 2y ago
  Same with a Librem 5 and for about the same amount of time too.
johnea 2y ago
Getting it to boot is barely even a first step. If the author especially liked the camera of that phone, it was probably because of the custom app that interfaced to the sensor. Getting good photography on a linux phone has been one of the enduring problems. Akin to overcoming custom graphics drivers for early linux SoC development. Like the other (currently top ranked) comment, I highly recommend the furiphone as the current peak of linux phone development. https://furilabs.com/ https://furilabs.com/
m463 2y ago
I have heard good things about GrapheneOS
- fossman 2y ago
  Me too. Too bad it can only be installed on Google hardware. Instead of giving $$$ to a surveillance corporation, I'd rather give it to small Linux phone vendors who are on the user's side from day one! GrapheneOS is riding on decades of Google-funded development and is thus pretty great. Linux phone development never had that kind of funding but we are getting there slowly but assuredly through user funded development and community involvement.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
I'm trying to imagine how few things could and couldn't if moved from iPhone: 1. Does bluetooth headphones work? Kinda dealbreaker to go back to cables. 2. Music apps? Soundcloud web app probably ok. I don't use Apple Music much, but I know they have web app. 3. I don't even dream HomePod or HomeKit support. I use HomeKit to open my house, but probably could move it to Home Assistant. 4. Messenger/Instagram web apps suck balls, but I manage to cope. 5. Government Id app - this one ties to phones hardware. Very useful but I'm not extremeley dependent on it. 6. Car Key - dealbreaker to go back to keys/cards 7. Payment card - it's been a decade or so since I use this. 8. Myriad of apps that technically don't require a phone to operate - could probably have a burner phone for this - DJI, Eufy, Tuya, Deye, Wyze, Ewelink, Aqara. 9. EV charger apps - afaik none of them have web interface. Keyfobs are an option, but another thing to loose. 10. Supermarket loyalty apps - screenshot normally works 11. I assume some sort of video calling app exists for it? Is it cross platform?
xcircle 2y ago
I‘m looking for Liberux. This is an european (Spain) development. They got actually their first dev board. https://liberux.net https://liberux.net
- yencabulator 2y ago
  What UI are they planning on putting on top of their fork of Debian?
QuantumNoodle 2y ago
Privacy of things aside. My phone has more compute & ram than my computer did many years ago. There is no longer a _need_ for a mobile platform like there was years ago. I would love to run any software I want on my phone. Problem is these days, "first to market" mentality ships software with a lot of bloat and it is tolerable bc PCs are very powerful. So as phones got more powerful, software got more bloaty.
- moondev 2y ago
  I have a pixel 9 pro, in the android beta there is a "terminal" app that launches a Debian shell inside a VM. You can choose to resize the disk as large as your storage can offer, and all apt aarch64 packages are available including docker. Really impressed with it so far. This is a similar experience to crostini on ChromeOS, but gui apps are not working yet. I was able to ssh out to one my servers, then ssh into the phone from my desktop forwarding x11. I then successfully launched x11-eyes and a few others. Hopeful that eventually you can run a desktop or at least x11/wayland apps all self contained on the phone. Pretty cool to tinker with for now.
snapplebobapple 2y ago
phones need a standardization moment so they end up like desktops so anyone can run whatever they want on them

147 points by ingve 2y ago

I run an older Android phone without a Google account. All apps are from F-Droid. Google services are all turned off. Mail is Thunderbird, browser is Fennec. Is it still possible to initialize an Android phone without a Google account?

codethief 2y ago
Yes, it is.
Nux 2y ago
Yes, I do this routinely. Check devices supported by 3rd party distros like LineageOS which out of the box have no Google services. Ironically Pixel phones are very well supported. Xiaomi, OnePlus, too. There are quite a few: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
- amaccuish 2y ago
  It should be said though that only Pixel, Fairphone, and maybe some Motorolas support relocking the bootloader with a custom OS. Without that ability, anyone can plug in to your phone and write whatever they want to the internal flash and your phone will be none the wiser.
  - lucb1e 2y ago
    Happens to me all the time. Also on laptops, secureboot is such a life saver any time you're out and about ...it's sure nice this exists and is available to anyone but it's not seriously a risk if you're not of interest to people who are willing to physically show up and bug your hardware in a way that requires quite a bit of preparation
  - Klonoar 2y ago
    Some Sony models (not the Verizon one last sold in the USA) should too, no?
  - JCattheATM 2y ago
    The OnePlus6T supports it, it will still display a warning but it will be locked.
- amelius 2y ago
  Routinely? How often do you buy a new phone? :) Or maybe it is because mobile computing is just stuck, and it won't move even in decades ...
  - Nux 2y ago
    Alright, perhaps "routinely" is a strong word, but all my phones run non-stock and I don't buy devices I can't do this on. All in all I must have installed 3rd party roms on 6-7 devices with good results.
lawn 2y ago
Lookup LineageOS and CalyxOS. I use CalyxOS with MicroG and can download apps from the app store without a Google account or Google services (although some apps won't work without them of course).
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
blackbear_ 2y ago
> Is it still possible to initialize an Android phone without a Google account? Totally, get a Pixel phone and put GrapheneOS on it. You get state of the art hardware and the latest Android hardened for privacy and with optional Google services. That is, you can install and remove them anytime like any other app.
- Animats 2y ago
  Do you have to install a whole new distro? I just managed to get past the signup screen, then deleted the "first use" app and disabled Google's apps.
  - blackbear_ 2y ago
    Yes, you need to flash their image. They have a web installer from the browser and the process is relatively straightforward: https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web
wishfish 2y ago
Recently picked up a Moto G Power 2024 as a cheap way to play around with Android. Never signed in with Google. Use Thunderbird / Firefox. Mixplorer for files. Most Google services & apps disabled. Use Obtanium as my main way to install apps, with a few from F-droid too. Have Aurora for anonymous Play if I need it but so far have just used it for Dropbox. At the heart of this is Netguard. I'm using this firewall as a whitelist. Blocking network for everything except for the things I approve. So far, this seems to be working well. It's been a great experience. Have ended up using this device more than my iPhone. Still has the stock ROM but, with the bad stuff disabled, it hasn't gotten in my way. This feels like it's truly my own device in a way that's rare these days. Main drawback is the lack of future updates.
BlueTemplar 2y ago
Easily ? I recently bought a Samsung Galaxy S21 as a backup and am posting from it right now (from Firefox). Never associated a Google account. The issue is that it's just a stop-gap solution : we ought to strive to remove our dependence on Android/iOS(/Xiaomi) entirely.
QuantumNoodle 2y ago
Get a pixel and immediately flash GrapheneOS. The appeal of GrapheneOS is it uses the same AOSP android that Google uses, but with all Google things stripped out. So you have 1st class support for all firmware and software features and a really polished experience out of the box. You even get to use things like the awesome Google camera that doesn't phone home. You can even sandbox some Google services to get things like maps working.

OsrsNeedsf2P 2y ago

This website is hostile to scrolling on mobile, I've never seen a worse UX pattern in my life. But for me, I see so much potential in Linux phones, but after waiting decades for the Linux desktop to pickup, I won't hold my breath.

godelski 2y ago
I blocked reader mode and it worked fine. Not an excuse, but it is common for sites to not work well for phones. I find it a bit surprising these days but hey, Wikipedia knows how to redirect desktop links to mobile versions but not the reverse and they have the great foresight to add an automatic option to dark mode settings but wild idiocy to set the default configuration to light mode. I guess I'm with you man. I'm often baffled at how much low hanging fruit never gets fixed
ozgrakkurt 2y ago
Linux desktop is very pleasant to use now compared to 5 years before. I tried a lot of times to switch to linux before but it never stuck, now I use only linux on my desktop. But need all that software for phones, make it compatible, stable, easy to install etc. maybe it will happen if some company invests in it. Like gaming on linux and valve
d3Xt3r 2y ago
> after waiting decades for the Linux desktop to pickup Linux desktops are very much usable now, especially if you choose a competent DE like KDE, and a decent distro (ie, not Ubuntu). Is there anything particular you find the Linux desktop still lacks majorly, preventing you from switching?
- staunton 2y ago
  What's wrong with Ubuntu?
  - d3Xt3r 2y ago
    Canonical keeps doing stupid, anti-user, anti-community stuff constantly, to the point that many people consider them to be the Microsoft of the Linux world. For instance, not long ago, they were including ads/Amazon results in the Apps menu[1], similar to what Microsoft did with the Start menu. They also keep sneaking in suggestions (aka ads) for their Ubuntu Pro subscription in various places like the MOTD, or when you run apt[2], which isn't cool. Most recently, the biggest annoyance is with the way they've been aggressively pushing their Snap store, to the point of even hijacking regular "apt install" commands - normally, you'd expect an "apt install" to fetch a regular .deb from the distro's repos, but they silently hijack the command to fetch apps from their Snap store instead[3]. Now, you may think that normal, non-technical users don't need to care about Snaps - and you'd be right, if they actually worked well. Snaps are slow and buggy and have been a constant source of pain for many users[4]. A major issue is with how buggy Ubuntu has become, especially OS upgrades, which may result in anything from minor issues like broken shortcuts, to complete breakage[5]. This might lead you to think that it's better to do a fresh install, but of late, new ISO releases have been incredibly buggy - like the 24.04 LTS installer, which kept crashing for many users[6] - and considering that LTS is supposed to be the super-stable version, that is not a good user experience. Finally, my pet peeve is with how commercial Canonical have become, like with pushing their Pro subscriptions to targeting enterprises over end users. A couple of months ago, someone was complaining about how confusing the website had become, where the first "download" button you saw wasn't for the Ubuntu ISO, but some enterprise crap. Everything on the website just screamed "corporate"[7]. It feels like Canonical has long shed it's newbie-friendly image and turned into a soulless corporation, not unlike Microsoft. [1] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/mark-shuttleworth-explains-ubuntus-new-amazon-adware-feature https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/mark-shuttleworth-explai... [2] https://linuxiac.com/ubuntu-once-again-angered-users-by-placing-ads/ https://linuxiac.com/ubuntu-once-again-angered-users-by-plac... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLDQA2f1GM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLDQA2f1GM4 [4] https://rl.bloat.cat/r/linux4noobs/comments/1cgw11u/snaps_are_slow_laggy_garbage/ https://rl.bloat.cat/r/linux4noobs/comments/1cgw11u/snaps_ar... [5] https://ounapuu.ee/posts/2025/02/05/done-with-ubuntu/ https://ounapuu.ee/posts/2025/02/05/done-with-ubuntu/ [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1__qfYXtv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1__qfYXtv0 [7] https://bsky.app/profile/mary.my.id/post/3lghc4rjqg2vd https://bsky.app/profile/mary.my.id/post/3lghc4rjqg2vd

Tepix 2y ago

Isn't every Android phone a Linux phone? OK, i guess we want something that is less encumbered and more transparent with more digital sovereignty for the user than the Android that we get from the various big phone vendors. What's the difference between an AOSP Android phone and a Linux phone? For me, there is no substantial difference. The Android based phone is likely to be way more usable the various "Linux phones". The linked article states "Linux phones and their apps are all open-source and do not depend on ads or surveillance to sustain some nefarious business model, which means there is much privacy to be won." but this also applies to AOSP Android devices with open source apps. In other words: If you seek a Linux phone, why aren't you picking GrapheneOS or LineageOS? Is there anything else that's missing?

forty 2y ago
GrapheneOS only supports a few specific Google phones, so it's not an option for most cases
- quotemstr 2y ago
  It still makes zero sense to take the XDG/dbus/whatever stack and make it run on a phone, suboptimally, when AOSP is right there and has already solved all the thousands of integration issues you'll run into --- plus, it's already free software. NIH is the only rationale for the "Linux" phone thing and it's why it will be forever fringe. People working on "Linux" phones as anything more than a diversion (why not play Factorio instead?) are wasting their time.
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    I agree with your overall point but the following comment is unnecessary: > People working on "Linux" phones as anything more than a diversion (why not play Factorio instead?) are wasting their time. People are free to spent their free time however they want. Some people view building things, whether it’s furniture or software, more enjoyable than playing computer games or watching TV.
  - aragilar 2y ago

mpol 2y ago

Anyone using PostmarketOS on a phone? And I mean as a daily driver, with no other phone. I have been following it for years and would like to switch someday, but that moment hasn't happened yet. Currently I use Sailfish from Jolla on a Sony phone. For a linux phone, it serves my needs. I would be open to change.

carpenecopinum 2y ago
I have a OnePlus 6 becoming "free" soon and I will definitely give PostmarketOS a shot (I had a glance at their compatibility list and noticed the OP6 is on there). Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
turtleyacht 2y ago
Here is one recent report after using PinePhone with PostmarketOS and Phosh for a few years: Daily Driving a Linux Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43750756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43750756 - 2 days ago (3 points, 2 comments)
vmaurin 2y ago
I do, a Oneplus 6, PMOS "edge" with OpenRC + Phosh. Everything is fine, except I still need to reboot the phone after each call to be sure to have the audio working
- d3Xt3r 2y ago
  How is 4G calling (VoLTE) these days? Last I heard it needed quite a bit of a manual work to get it going.
  - bionade24 2y ago
    Sailfish(OS) supports VoLTE in newer, supported devices. For community ports and other mobile Linux distros it's afaik still rare. Closed drivers and obtaining configurations for carriers in other countries are the 2 big showstoppers.
Piraty 2y ago

greatgib 2y ago

If you want a Linux phone that could be your daily driver, I would highly recommend the furiphone of furilabs (https://furilabs.com/ https://furilabs.com/). I got one from the Fosdem and it is truly amazing! Contrary to previous things I tried, like the pinephone, this one is really totally usable for everyday with everything that you could need (phone, SMS, 4g/5g, ...). Especially, for one time it has a very good camera, on par with some Xiaomi phones, that is really ok when you like to take pictures. Basically, it is a kind of a debian, but there is something very amazing, waydroid, that allows to run Android apps like if it was native apps but with full control other their rights, like being in a sandbox. The only issue that is not really solvable is that a lot of apps are requiring the Google integrity verification shit, so your are forced to connect with your Google account to the play store or Google services to be able to use them. Like these shitty OpenAI and Mistral apps...

genewitch 2y ago
> so your are forced to connect with your Google account Slight adjustment to your verbiage: you are forced to interact with Google, but I don't recall having to give a phone number for emulators. Then again, one didn't need a microsofr account to use windows until recently, so I might be wrong. Tablets and things like x86 android exist so I don't know that Google can enforce phone numbers anyhow, if you want a separate login for each device...
- greatgib 2y ago
  It is not that you have to "interact" with Google the problem, in the sense of interacting like downloading an app. You can use the Aurora store, but once you try to use the app, the app itself will redirect you to an oauth2 login for your Google account, the kind that is associating your "phone"/Google service globally with your Google account. And this despite the fact that I will only use password login for openai and mistral, that should not be linked to Google anyway. In addition with integrity verification, I can easily think that they are using it for "push notifications" that will also travel through Google. So, it is not only that you will have to "interact" with Google, but the fact that you will be forced to let Google track you: which phone you use, which ip, which app with which account, used when, where, ...". That defects a little bit the purpose to have a "free" phone if you still have to give your data to Google. So the problem is the "push" not the "pull".

spencerflem 2y ago

One of these days I'll get a phone that can run Genode's Sculpt Movile OS.

Uptrenda 2y ago

Good luck. Almost every service you need for a smart phone to be "smart" anything requires being part of the Google or Apple botnet. Yeah, you can install whatever crap you like on your phone. Maybe it will do SMS? Kewl. Want maps, mobile banking, 2-factor auth, different password managers, music streaming, and so on... good luck without one of the app stores. Also, being unplugged sometimes means your phone won't even work for calling beyond SMS. Since its baked into the ROM image and you have to hope that the devs have added support for your hardware. So you trade a smart phone (a useful device for the modern world) for a goofy neckbeard terminal in your pocket (too small to be used for any complex input.)

immibis 2y ago
You can do a lot of this on the web. Hang on, did you just cite 2-factor auth as something that requires a proprietary app? And password managers?
- instagib 2y ago
  Some countries have a high number of scams. You need to physically go to a bank, verify multiple forms of id, facial scan, get their app with facial recognition, and hope your face does not deviate when traveling. A relative gained 20lbs traveling and facial recognition failed. They had to ask a friend to pay their bills and go back to their home country to re-verify everything. Some companies require specific apps for authentication too.
- Arnavion 2y ago
  I actually run Waydroid on my Linux phone because of 2FA. All my personal 2FAs are just TOTPs in a keepassxc DB synced between my phone and my PCs (accessed via gnome-secrets on the phone). But my $dayjob requires MS Authenticator in the "here's a 2-digit number, open MS Authenticator on your phone and type them in to approve" mode, so I have to run that in waydroid.

nicexe 2y ago

I have a FreeBSD VM on my iPhone but I'm not using it for any phone-related tasks.

JCattheATM 2y ago
You couldn't even if you wanted to, right? Doesn't apple have pretty crazy restrictions on VMs?

INTPenis 2y ago

I was daily driving Linux phones 15 years ago! It's crazy to think back on the journey. I have great nostalgia for the Nokia N900 but god damn Maemo/Meego was a piece of shit. When you can't even answer phone calls it's not daily driving anymore, it's beta testing. After that I tried Firefox OS but it was switfly replaced by Android, thank the gods for Android.

jonesjohnson 2y ago
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. My experience with the N900 (and the N9 later) was pretty decent. The N900 was way ahead of its time. I got it in 2010. popped in a 32G µSD-card and I had 64GB, which was already a lot. The UI was amazing. True multitasking on a phone. IIRC the iPhone at that time wasn't able to do that. usable HW keyboard, headphone jack, two cameras, proper two-stage camera button, a little stand to prop it op, replaceable battery, IR emitter (there was a tv-b-gone app!), FM Transmitter to hear audio in any car... It was a (small) brick and the resistive touch display + stylus was not perfect, but okay. The software ecosystem was not good, though. Userbase was small. And when Nokia finally dropped it, it remained the first and last of its kind, so noone was keen on keeping developing for it. Meego was getting better, and Sailfish is actually really ok. I'm "temporarily" (4 years now...) using Android ("/e/os" - what a stupid name), but since I do not want to use any Google Services, I feel that it's always just whack-a-mole to get the app you want running on the device and have it properly working...
- INTPenis 2y ago
  Both me and my brother had an N900 each and we both had an awful experience with them. My brother worked at Nokia at the time so he's lyrical about Nokia phones to this day.

Distilitron 2y ago

Have read this with one thought: "I don't deseve this shit"

codethief 2y ago

> Many will point out that a Linux phone is less secure than Android or iOS, but that highly depends on your personal threat model. Linux phones and their apps are all open-source and do not depend on ads or surveillance to sustain some nefarious business model, which means there is much privacy to be won. Meanwhile here I am on my Linux machine, constantly anxious that sooner or later one of my bazillion npm and pip dependencies will get compromised, and secretly praying that one day proper sandboxing and an Android-security model will be common on the Linux desktop, so that I can erect security boundaries between my applications and repositories. I find this quote[0] by the developer of SpectrumOS[1] rather telling: <qyliss> I have embarked on the ultimate yak shave <qyliss> it started with "I wish I could securely store passwords on my computer" <qyliss> And now I am at the "I have funding to build my own operating system" level [0]: https://alyssa.is/about/ https://alyssa.is/about/ [1]: https://spectrum-os.org/ https://spectrum-os.org/

guappa 2y ago
Firejail and apparmor have existed for years. If you don't use them maybe it's your fault? Also the very same npm backdoors have already hit android apps. What can sandboxing do if you backdoor a dependency of your banking app?
- aragilar 2y ago
  Or go old-school with multiple users and chroots? You could even install from (and host) a trusted repository, where the source and binaries are vetted (and you can pay people to do this for you).
  - xorcist 2y ago
    Server software is usually compartmentalized in uid:s but desktop software seldom is, if ever. Package managers and maintainers could do a lot here to make it easier. Some things long time Linux users like to do, like running Firefox as a separate user, is still a much more involved process than it should be. A lot of it is probably standards and culture work, like where a user can expect to store files and have them readable by Firefox in this example. So perhaps this is something the GNOME/Freedesktop people could have been interested in and made a difference? Instead we have things like Flatpak, which is good but not the lowest hanging fruit here.

Distilitron 2y ago

And yes this nonencrypted shit is totally insecure

guappa 2y ago
While the never fixed 0days on android are completely secure. And let's not forget the several noclick attacks that can root your iphone with a message :)
- tholdem 2y ago
  How can you compare iOS or Android security with desktop Linux security? Have you checked what it takes to achieve those 0-click root exploits on iOS or Android compared to a desktop Linux distro? Not even in the same league.
  - guappa 2y ago
    Have you checked the time it takes apple or any android vendor to fix anything vs the time it takes a linux distribution? Months vs hours.
    - akimbostrawman 2y ago
      Sounds like a vendor issue also present on desktop. Just get a pixel and enjoy first class update support with GrapheneOS.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
What makes you think it's not encrypted? https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Full_disk_encryption https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Full_disk_encryption seems to indicate that support varies a bit by device but it's perfectly doable.
- Arnavion 2y ago
  Note that the initramfs is stored without encryption or signing. So while your data won't be leaked when your phone gets stolen, it should be considered compromised if you get it back.

jrflowers 2y ago

I get that the appeal of using a Linux phone is being able to say “my phone is a Linux phone” but you could also just say that about any phone anyway. Most people will just nod when you say that and occasionally somebody will get incandescently angry. That is fine, good even. Variety is the spice of life

Jhsto 2y ago

I have been thinking daily driving Linux phone just to manage smartphone addiction. My first step was to get rid of my MacBook. Now, a year later, I think I'm ready to get rid of the Apple Watch. With the watch, it has been surprising how much you think you need to record your HR and workouts -- but it's just another bogus number that you don't need. Later the year I think I'll be finally ready for the phone. This would happen by getting an iPad mini first, which would stay at home while I go to work with the phone only. I think the hard class of apps to get rid of is mainly "Travel", plus password manager (I use passage but the transition will take time) + Find My. But travel is very much planned in my life, so for those occasions I can take my iPad mini with me.

saidinesh5 2y ago
Smartphone addiction usually just means using one or more of the social media apps... (Twitter, YouTube, instagram, reddit etc...) All of them work just fine on the mobile browser on these Linux OSes... What you'll get stuck with is the lack of useful smartphone apps like bank apps, payment apps, navigation apps etc...
nottorp 2y ago
> it has been surprising how much you think you need to record your HR and workouts Start a martial art instead :) Things like jewelry, fitness bands and watches aren't generally allowed during training and will only last for a few sessions even if allowed anyway. That should get you used to not monitoring everything.

mft_ 2y ago

But why, indeed. Years ago, I met someone (through another friend) who worked in CS, and was super into digital privacy. He was the first person I knew to run a Linux phone, for privacy reasons. He tried to pay for as much as possible by cash, and maintained his accounts manually on paper. The only way to contact him was by text message (intermittently, unreliably) or via a specific client using the Matrix protocol. My friend and I both installed the client to be able to contact him and maintain a friendship. After a few months, we both lost contact with him simultaneously: something was updated in the client, and it was impossible to re-establish contact with him without a F2F interaction (="privacy"). Sadly, he was also uncontactable by text message. For both of us, the friendship simply ceased to exist. My reflection is that such things --as with many things in life-- are on a spectrum. At some point on the spectrum, as you head towards the extreme end, your position on that spectrum (be it voluntary or --as with disease-- involuntary) start to impair your ability to live (what might be considered) a normal functional life. I'd also hazard that moving towards that extreme end of the spectrum beings increasing small gains, coupled with increasingly large downsides. I'm not suggesting that running a pure Linux phone is extreme, but it's definitely in the middle zone where there are definite downsides.

mac-attack 2y ago
I had a similar experience with GrapheneOS. There is a balance in act between continuing down the privacy rabbit hole versus being able to communicate effectively with your social circle and it is easy to double down on privacy at the cost of relationships if you are not aware of how it is affecting others.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  I have my own problems with GrapheneOS, but I thought they made a great effort to make sure that it didn't really have that kind of downside. What problems did you hit?
  - codethief 2y ago
    I suppose that if you use GOS without Google Play Services, you'll have a hard time using lots of services like WhatsApp etc.

MelodyUwU 2y ago

same here, i daily drive linux on my phone, ditched the prioprietary OSs long ago

jonesjohnson 2y ago
How are you dealing with companies that force you to use an Android app? There are so many services in daily life where people just expect me to have an Android/iPhone device. Those things are increasingly difficult to achieve in a different way.
- MelodyUwU 2y ago
  spoiler: i dont. i dont need to, simply. my bank can be accessed fully through the website, and that is how i use it. most services i have i use through email or some other form of interaction that does not require an app. i simply do not use these services, and thus i dont need to even have an app for them. if im lucky, it will work on waydroid, but i dont have a lot inside waydroid. so, yeah, it is easy for me as of now at least.
  - fossman 2y ago
    This is also my approach. I use the bank websites. If any dirty fiat banking cartel or other group try to force their app down my throat, I simply take my money and go elsewhere! This is the only way we can solve this. $$$ is the only language these crooks understand.
- ctrlc-root 2y ago
  Not the parent but I'll reply for myself. I have a Librem 5 as my personal phone which I take with me when I go places and use as my daily driver. I also have a Pixel running GrapheneOS with work and personal profiles for the few times I need to run an Android application but it more or less permanently stays at my desk. The Android applications I have on that phone are banking (required to use Zelle at my bank) and management applications for various devices (ex: managing settings on my bluetooth headphones). I don't need to use those often and when I do it can wait until I'm back at my desk where my GrapheneOS phone lives.

Y_Y 2y ago

Because Android and iOS serve other masters. Its's not just that this is morally unsound, it's fucking infuriating. Imagine JD Rockefeller had arranged it so that your pen and paper constantly nagged you and tried to trick you into buying things. I'm calling it now, society is going to collapse and it's going to be because of software and hardware working together in tandem to make life miserable and expensive and only accessible through authorized devices and apps for the best possible experience. (I do have a PinePhone Pro, and it has its own problems, but they're merely inconvenient rather than life-draining.)

hnpolicestate 2y ago
Digital fascism is the future. The majority don't care. A friend wanted to stream a clip from YouTube with me on discord and actually chose the completely DMR ridden YouTube Discord app instead of just streaming directly from YouTube. Why would someone make that their first choice? I don't know but they do.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  It's the present, for several years. And if you're connecting discord with youtube you've already lost. :-D
verisimi 2y ago
Fascism is our actual governance system - if you define it as 'government and corporations working together', as Mussolini did. It is just that we are mostly under the illusion that we live in a democracy. It is long in the planning that software and hardware work together - look into technocracy. Smart anything = spy. Smart meters are tools to monitor resource usage. Smart phones are spying/reporting on you. Ai will guide you. You will be irritated and fined to death if you do not conform with the plan. Global warming, terrorists and child porn are the various justifications given to justify whatever-new-loss-of-privacy/resource extraction is required. Even so, individuals will be fine. You don't have to willingly give up your heart and soul to join the borg. That extra yatch/holiday/holiday home will not appease your true self. How many times do you need to come back?

brbcompiling 2y ago

Anyone tried Linux phones for daily use? Not those Android ones, but real Linux. Just wondering how it works in real life compared to Android/iOS?

m4rtink 2y ago
Sailfish OS works fine. :)
fossman 2y ago
PostmarketOS on a Liberty Phone (upgraded Librem 5) works fine, and just gets better with each major update which is twice a year!
chainingsolid 2y ago
I've been reading Hackernews in the morning and call/texting on my Pinephone for a few years now. The polish(and many times functonality) level is far less than Android/iOS. Depending on what you need/want will dictate if you could use it. For example all the Android/iOS only stuff I just ignore. And I haven't yet gotten GPS + maps to work though it seams like quite a bit of that is in place. If you have specific questions I'd be happy to have a go at answering them.

butz 2y ago

Probably a silly question, but what is the smallest modern phone one could get new, to run Linux on and have at least basic phone and sms functionality working?

craftkiller 2y ago
I haven't used any of these but unihertz makes some truly tiny android phones. I see that people have put Linux on the titan, but the jelly line is where the really small phones are. Unfortunately, afaict, those are stuck on android for now.

paulcole 2y ago

> Many will point out that a Linux phone is less secure than Android or iOS, but that highly depends on your personal threat model. 99% of people should live their lives without a personal threat model.

throwanem 2y ago

This isn't like a paper notebook at all! I carry two of those every day and they never, ever kernel panic.

yndoendo 2y ago

I too am looking for a Linux phone as a daily to decouple from Google. Currently using a Fairphone with \e\OS. microG is prone to crash on the latest system update but not a big issues. Navigation work just fine too across the USA. Ordered the FuriPhone and tried to get it in before the Tariff Wars. Currently waiting for it to enter shipping limbo from the manufacturer. Hoping that the USA Government's treatment of foreign counties helps ignite the push to move away from Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and others. Linux and BSD are most likely to benefit in the tech transition. Lower cost to bring up infrastructure and features allow for removing larges USA corporations as daily drivers. I'm getting tired of all the Enshitification those companies are jumping on to as the new business model. P.S. We need to stop using the "Gated Community" analogy when speaking of Apple and Google with phones. A real gated community allows owners the addition of more personal security; guards, cameras, and security systems. Apple and Google do not allow owners to improve security; firewall, direct backups, and removal of useless applications. The closet analogy I can come up with is "Prison Community".

tmtvl 2y ago

I have a Volla X22 (or whatever) with Ubuntu Touch. I can send SMS messages, I can call people, and I can listen to music. That's about 80% of what I want a smartphone for taken care of (and the music wouldn't be necessary if there were decent MP3/OGG players which support OPUS, but alas, smartphones killed portable music players). I did jump through some hoops to install Firefox and get it working with the phone's touchscreen keyboard so I can use digital bus tickets rather than physical ones. I also went and installed Waydroid so I can use WhatsApp for my kung fu club when it's needed. There are a couple of bike rental companies in Belgium which require one to install an Android/iPhone app to use their services, but I have decided not to give them the time of day.

kps 2y ago

I don't want a phone, I want a pocket computer (with connectivity).

neilsimp1 2y ago

Still using my Librem 5 (2 years in). Still works. Still like it.

ctrlc-root 2y ago
Same with a Librem 5 and for about the same amount of time too.

johnea 2y ago

Getting it to boot is barely even a first step. If the author especially liked the camera of that phone, it was probably because of the custom app that interfaced to the sensor. Getting good photography on a linux phone has been one of the enduring problems. Akin to overcoming custom graphics drivers for early linux SoC development. Like the other (currently top ranked) comment, I highly recommend the furiphone as the current peak of linux phone development. https://furilabs.com/ https://furilabs.com/

m463 2y ago

I have heard good things about GrapheneOS

fossman 2y ago
Me too. Too bad it can only be installed on Google hardware. Instead of giving $$$ to a surveillance corporation, I'd rather give it to small Linux phone vendors who are on the user's side from day one! GrapheneOS is riding on decades of Google-funded development and is thus pretty great. Linux phone development never had that kind of funding but we are getting there slowly but assuredly through user funded development and community involvement.

dzhiurgis 2y ago

I'm trying to imagine how few things could and couldn't if moved from iPhone: 1. Does bluetooth headphones work? Kinda dealbreaker to go back to cables. 2. Music apps? Soundcloud web app probably ok. I don't use Apple Music much, but I know they have web app. 3. I don't even dream HomePod or HomeKit support. I use HomeKit to open my house, but probably could move it to Home Assistant. 4. Messenger/Instagram web apps suck balls, but I manage to cope. 5. Government Id app - this one ties to phones hardware. Very useful but I'm not extremeley dependent on it. 6. Car Key - dealbreaker to go back to keys/cards 7. Payment card - it's been a decade or so since I use this. 8. Myriad of apps that technically don't require a phone to operate - could probably have a burner phone for this - DJI, Eufy, Tuya, Deye, Wyze, Ewelink, Aqara. 9. EV charger apps - afaik none of them have web interface. Keyfobs are an option, but another thing to loose. 10. Supermarket loyalty apps - screenshot normally works 11. I assume some sort of video calling app exists for it? Is it cross platform?

xcircle 2y ago

I‘m looking for Liberux. This is an european (Spain) development. They got actually their first dev board. https://liberux.net https://liberux.net

yencabulator 2y ago
What UI are they planning on putting on top of their fork of Debian?

QuantumNoodle 2y ago

Privacy of things aside. My phone has more compute & ram than my computer did many years ago. There is no longer a _need_ for a mobile platform like there was years ago. I would love to run any software I want on my phone. Problem is these days, "first to market" mentality ships software with a lot of bloat and it is tolerable bc PCs are very powerful. So as phones got more powerful, software got more bloaty.

moondev 2y ago
I have a pixel 9 pro, in the android beta there is a "terminal" app that launches a Debian shell inside a VM. You can choose to resize the disk as large as your storage can offer, and all apt aarch64 packages are available including docker. Really impressed with it so far. This is a similar experience to crostini on ChromeOS, but gui apps are not working yet. I was able to ssh out to one my servers, then ssh into the phone from my desktop forwarding x11. I then successfully launched x11-eyes and a few others. Hopeful that eventually you can run a desktop or at least x11/wayland apps all self contained on the phone. Pretty cool to tinker with for now.

snapplebobapple 2y ago

phones need a standardization moment so they end up like desktops so anyone can run whatever they want on them