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Sure, but Ohio has ~4200 bars[0]. Which is roughly 1/4 the ratio of bars to people. [0]: https://rentechdigital.com/smartscraper/business-report-details/united

Sure, but Ohio has ~4200 bars[0]. Which is roughly 1/4 the ratio of bars to people. [0]: https://rentechdigital.com/smartscraper/business-report-details/united-states/list-of-bars-in-ohio?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://rentechdigital.com/smartscraper/business-report-deta...

aktuel 1y ago
Ohioans love "big bars".
xmprt 1y ago
I don't think bars in Korea have parking minimums like they do in Ohio.
- skrebbel 1y ago
  What's a parking minimum?
  - chmod775 1y ago
    The minimum number of parking that needs to be available per seat/dining area. https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/plaincity/latest/plaincity_oh/0-0-0-15414 https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/plaincity/latest/plain... Codes like these are the secret sauce of America's asphalt deserts, in which you'll find - by international standards - comparatively large restaurants and stores. Walkable cities tend to gravitate towards smaller equivalents, and more of them.
  - Akronymus 1y ago
    A minimum amount of parking spots per patron capacity. So a bar with 60 people capacity must have 15 parking spaces. [0] Usually parking minimums are WAY too high in required parking spaces to make sense in most cases. Which leads to stuff like a arena having 5x the land area be parking than what is taken up by the arena itself. [1] 0: https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/harrison/latest/harrison_oh/0-0-0-27427 https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/harrison/latest/harris... (this is for harrison, ohio, just happened to be the first result I found. it's under commercial -> "Tavern, bar, club, lodge, and dance hall.") 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8
    - skrebbel 1y ago
      The idea of a bar (ie a place people go to get drunk) with a dedicated parking lot strikes me as particularly bad for road safety. I'm baffled that this is not only encouraged, but mandated. How do people do this in practice? Just drink and drive and hope they don't crash / get fined? Or does everybody bring 1 friend who sips colas the whole night?
      - vulcan01 1y ago
        We call the latter a designated driver [1] though as you can imagine sometimes the designated driver is "only" slightly drunk. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_driver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_driver
        skrebbel 1y ago
        Yeah but I mean, if everybody goes to the pub by car, does it mean everybody brings a designated driver? Or is this one of those things where everybody drives drunk but pretends nobody does?
        alexfoo 1y ago
        Taxis exist.
        skrebbel 1y ago
        The parking minimum is for taxis?
        apocalyptic0n3 1y ago
        It's pretty common for people drive to the bar, get drunk, taxi/Uber/Lyft/DD home, and then return the following day to get their vehicle. I don't think it makes sense personally, but I also don't drink at all so I'm not a great judge here.
throwaway290 1y ago
82k places in Korea include any restaurant or joint or karaoke with a license to serve alcohol. Personally I would not care to call 80% of them "bar". So in Ohio probably everything with class C and D license. How many is not public but probably many times more than 4k. Many actual street level bona fide bars in Seoul (which has half of all the people of the entire country and the most bars by far) are tiny rooms that fit a few people each. But you always have a "bar street" with 50 of those next to each other.
- saalweachter 1y ago
  Ok, that gets the numbers in line -- there are about 27,000 liquor licenses in Ohio, according to a random Google, which is about the same per capita. South Korea apparently ranks #97 on alcohol deaths, so it's apparently not a problematic number of bars, by global standards.
forgotoldacc 1y ago
A lot of bars in walkable cities fit about 10 or fewer people. East Asia in particular has loads of tiny bars. Plus being able to walk or take a train home makes them far more accessible for people than needing to drive home.
pjc50 1y ago
Just to compare, they also have a tour for the UK https://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/tsp/uk/index.html https://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/tsp/uk/index.html : 49,687 pubs. They are such an urban phenomenon. A largely empty rural state, with the legacy of prohibition, where you have to drive? That's going to have way fewer drinking locations. A culture of hanging out and drinking requires walkable urbanism. Many of the UK pubs pre-date the invention of the car; "peak pub" appears to have been the late 1800s with over 100,000. I'm impressed that Korea has more than the UK, but this is definitely going to be a matter of size and the tiny Korean bars.
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  > A culture of hanging out and drinking requires walkable urbanism. I don't think that's really true. In the UK, villages had pubs. Gradually some of the villages were joined together into larger cities, and the pubs remained. It wasn't planned as walkable urbanism.
  - tlb 1y ago
    You didn't have to plan to get walkable urbanism before cars. It just happened because everyone needed a pub, store, school, etc. within walking distance.
    - robertlagrant 1y ago
      But it wasn't urban. That's my point.
ToValueFunfetti 1y ago
This is also upper-bounded by the law; Ohio only issues one class D-5 liquor license (license to sell beer, wine, and spirits) per 2000 residents, which roughly maxes it out at ~5950 bars (in practice this looks to be rounded up on a per-town basis, making this an underestimate). An Ohio with the population of South Korea would only be allowed ~25000 bars.

aktuel 1y ago

Ohioans love "big bars".

xmprt 1y ago

I don't think bars in Korea have parking minimums like they do in Ohio.

skrebbel 1y ago
What's a parking minimum?
- chmod775 1y ago
  The minimum number of parking that needs to be available per seat/dining area. https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/plaincity/latest/plaincity_oh/0-0-0-15414 https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/plaincity/latest/plain... Codes like these are the secret sauce of America's asphalt deserts, in which you'll find - by international standards - comparatively large restaurants and stores. Walkable cities tend to gravitate towards smaller equivalents, and more of them.
- Akronymus 1y ago
  A minimum amount of parking spots per patron capacity. So a bar with 60 people capacity must have 15 parking spaces. [0] Usually parking minimums are WAY too high in required parking spaces to make sense in most cases. Which leads to stuff like a arena having 5x the land area be parking than what is taken up by the arena itself. [1] 0: https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/harrison/latest/harrison_oh/0-0-0-27427 https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/harrison/latest/harris... (this is for harrison, ohio, just happened to be the first result I found. it's under commercial -> "Tavern, bar, club, lodge, and dance hall.") 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8
  - skrebbel 1y ago
    The idea of a bar (ie a place people go to get drunk) with a dedicated parking lot strikes me as particularly bad for road safety. I'm baffled that this is not only encouraged, but mandated. How do people do this in practice? Just drink and drive and hope they don't crash / get fined? Or does everybody bring 1 friend who sips colas the whole night?
    - vulcan01 1y ago
      We call the latter a designated driver [1] though as you can imagine sometimes the designated driver is "only" slightly drunk. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_driver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_driver
      - skrebbel 1y ago
        Yeah but I mean, if everybody goes to the pub by car, does it mean everybody brings a designated driver? Or is this one of those things where everybody drives drunk but pretends nobody does?
        alexfoo 1y ago
        Taxis exist.
        skrebbel 1y ago
        The parking minimum is for taxis?
        apocalyptic0n3 1y ago
        It's pretty common for people drive to the bar, get drunk, taxi/Uber/Lyft/DD home, and then return the following day to get their vehicle. I don't think it makes sense personally, but I also don't drink at all so I'm not a great judge here.

throwaway290 1y ago

82k places in Korea include any restaurant or joint or karaoke with a license to serve alcohol. Personally I would not care to call 80% of them "bar". So in Ohio probably everything with class C and D license. How many is not public but probably many times more than 4k. Many actual street level bona fide bars in Seoul (which has half of all the people of the entire country and the most bars by far) are tiny rooms that fit a few people each. But you always have a "bar street" with 50 of those next to each other.

saalweachter 1y ago
Ok, that gets the numbers in line -- there are about 27,000 liquor licenses in Ohio, according to a random Google, which is about the same per capita. South Korea apparently ranks #97 on alcohol deaths, so it's apparently not a problematic number of bars, by global standards.

forgotoldacc 1y ago

A lot of bars in walkable cities fit about 10 or fewer people. East Asia in particular has loads of tiny bars. Plus being able to walk or take a train home makes them far more accessible for people than needing to drive home.

pjc50 1y ago

Just to compare, they also have a tour for the UK https://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/tsp/uk/index.html https://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/tsp/uk/index.html : 49,687 pubs. They are such an urban phenomenon. A largely empty rural state, with the legacy of prohibition, where you have to drive? That's going to have way fewer drinking locations. A culture of hanging out and drinking requires walkable urbanism. Many of the UK pubs pre-date the invention of the car; "peak pub" appears to have been the late 1800s with over 100,000. I'm impressed that Korea has more than the UK, but this is definitely going to be a matter of size and the tiny Korean bars.

robertlagrant 1y ago
> A culture of hanging out and drinking requires walkable urbanism. I don't think that's really true. In the UK, villages had pubs. Gradually some of the villages were joined together into larger cities, and the pubs remained. It wasn't planned as walkable urbanism.
- tlb 1y ago
  You didn't have to plan to get walkable urbanism before cars. It just happened because everyone needed a pub, store, school, etc. within walking distance.
  - robertlagrant 1y ago
    But it wasn't urban. That's my point.

ToValueFunfetti 1y ago

This is also upper-bounded by the law; Ohio only issues one class D-5 liquor license (license to sell beer, wine, and spirits) per 2000 residents, which roughly maxes it out at ~5950 bars (in practice this looks to be rounded up on a per-town basis, making this an underestimate). An Ohio with the population of South Korea would only be allowed ~25000 bars.