4 ms·

> You can also charge this light with USB-C instead of the original micro-USB. A dynamo would be the next upgrade

dobladov 1y ago
I can't state how convenient hub dynamos are, no noise, no maintenance, unlikely to be robbed without stealing the whole bike, it just works, perfect for a city bike.
- tomn 1y ago
  I get why people like them, but they make way less sense when you work out the capacity of an equivalent weight (not to mention cost) of lithium cells. It's easy to get to about 90Wh, which will run a dynamo-powered light for 30 hours on max (most dynamos seem to be rated 3W). There are definitely cases where it makes sense, and not having to keep batteries charged is nice, it's just easy to miss how good batteries are these days.
  - tomsmeding 1y ago
    Not having to take the light off the bike and charge it and then forget to take it back to the bike, not to mention forgetting charging it and finding out when it's dark, is completely worth having a dynamo.
    - tomn 1y ago
      A spare battery in your saddle-pack solves most of those problems. If you're worried about being without light, a (typical) dynamo system is more complicated and exposed than a battery system, so will be more prone to failure.
      - alanfranz 1y ago
        I suppose you’re a casual cyclist and you don’t commute on a daily basis. If you commute on a daily basis, a hub dynamo and light system is a bliss. Just hop on the bike and go. I have used bikes with Shimano, SP and Son for thousands of kms in all kind of weather and never really experienced a fault. It’s as simple as car lights - you just take them for granted. With battery powered lights you need to take them off and put them back; recharge them; remember to bring them with you and not lose them. A spare battery pack is not enough (front and rear) and may not work during cycling (not all lights can be charged while turned on). And, low quality battery powered lights tend to quickly break (2-3 years) while I now realize one of my b+m systems is 10y old already. Good battery powered lights will probably last more, but they’re as expensive as dynamo powered ones. So yeah, battery is ok and cheap for casual cycling, but very suboptimal if you want reliable lights every day throughout the year.
        tomn 1y ago
        You're comparing a hub dynamo with cheap low-capacity rechargeable lights. Rechargeable lights from the usual suspects are generally not good, they are expensive for what they are, have low capacity, and don't have swappable standard-size batteries. They make dynamo systems look like a good deal, but if typical battery-powered lights were even close to their theoretical optimum I think people would be much less enthusiastic about dynamos.
        alanfranz 1y ago
        Good lights last more (I have a Blackburn lamp and it’s working) but it’s still less convenient than dynamo. You need to remove and remount it every time, with the risk of dropping or forgetting. Ofc if you mount fixed battery-powered lights and you could just swap a usb c battery, maybe it would compete with dynamo. But an easy swappable battery would still ve easy to steal (unless it’s inside the frame with a lock or sth like that)
      - numpad0 1y ago
        Typical non-hub dynamo lasts like 30 years parked outside, and nice ones cost like $10 on Amazon. You smack it and they start whining at you. They are only barely more complicated than a stew pan. Hub dynamos seem a bit more fragile, with a wire extending into the lightbulb, but never heard reliability is a concern with it...
        andrewshadura 1y ago
        Why do you think hub dynamos are more fragile? And what do you mean about a lightbulb?
        numpad0 1y ago
        I mean, it does have like, a wire between the hub and the lamp body. I think parent comment mentioned something about fragile wires when I posted the reply, I should have quoted it.
      - imp0cat 1y ago
        A spare battery in your saddle-pack And then you have to worry about recharging/replacing two batteries instead of one. Yay for progress!
        guappa 1y ago
        Don't worry, it will be stolen in 1 day.
    - franciscop 1y ago
      I live in Tokyo, and only drive in the city center. 90% of me having a light is the legal requirement of having so, I virtually never need it since the streets I usually ride are well-lit. The remainder 10% is that I like the solid feel of the bike overall and felt sad for the integrated light not to work TBH.
      - csunbird 1y ago
        When you are riding the bike in the city, the light is not for you to see things, it is for others to see and notice you.
        nottorp 1y ago
        Can't emphasise that enough. Especially if you're into black clothing and have a black bike. "This showed that for cars DRL reduces the number of daytime injury crashes by 3-12%. The effect on fatal crashes can be estimated as somewhat greater (-15%)." https://swov.nl/system/files/publication-downloads/fs_drl_archived.pdf https://swov.nl/system/files/publication-downloads/fs_drl_ar... This is about cars/motorcycles and daytime, but it certainly applies to any moving vehicle at any time... When driving, I love those bicyclists that have a blinking rear light btw. Can't overlook them.
    - pmontra 1y ago
      In my experience engaging a dynamo is worth one switch of the gear on a 7 gear cassette. I accept the tradeoff of having to pocket the light.
      - Mashimo 1y ago
        I don't even notice a difference.
      - jval43 1y ago
        Not with a hub-type one. These work magnetically and you basically obly lose the 3-5W of power they produce.
        Scoundreller 1y ago
        I want a 25w+ one that normally engages while braking, with a capacitor for non-braking times
  - fatfox 1y ago
    They make a ton of sense when you’re riding long distance and when you don’t have access to a charger.
  - Aardwolf 1y ago
    It's not about weight, it's about having the light work when you need it. Ensuring the battery is not empty at the time you want to ride it and it is night is not always convenient I'm talking about commute, not sports, here.
- gonzo41 1y ago
  If you like hub dynamos, give hub gears a try. My electric bike has nexus 7 hub gears. It's fantastic. There's essentially no maintenance.
  - dobladov 1y ago
    Exactly my setup, a nexus hub with 8 speeds, the bike has been outside under rain and occasional snow, and it's completely reliable for my daily work commute.
- analog31 1y ago
  How are they for drag when you're not using the light? My only misgiving is: Which bike to put it on?
  - dobladov 1y ago
    > Which bike to put it on? As mentioned, a city bike, I don't think a dynamo hub would be a practical choice for a racing bike or mountain bike, nor fit all riders. The drag is not an issue for a bike that I use to commute to work and go shopping, the convenience out weights by far the drag, and if the worry was weight and drag there are other parts that contribute much more like the carry bags, pannier rack, mudguards that again, are convenient. Another positive factor not mentioned would be environmental, no need to create waste with batteries.
  - lnx01 1y ago
    I would imagine it's minimal. I'll never forget a demo I played with at a Science museum as a kid. A dynamo with a crank you can turn, and set of switches that allow you to turn on one, two, or three incandescent bulbs. The crank turns freely without load, and is increasingly more difficult to turn as load is added.
ortusdux 1y ago
How much energy do they rob? I can't think of dynamos without thinking of Bart Simpson - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaKjmxb7Qlc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaKjmxb7Qlc
- Xylakant 1y ago
  It depends both on the lights and the dynamo. Incandescent lights used substantial chunks of your pedaling power. LED lights need maybe 5W or so. Hub dynamos are pretty efficient. For an untrained person your average power output is around 100W. That means powering the light would be around 5% of your power if you’re using an efficient hub dynamo. That’s in the ballpark of “bad chain maintenance costs more energy”
  - consp 1y ago
    > Incandescent lights used substantial chunks of your pedaling power. Not solely caused by the lights as they are about ~5W anyway (edit: the old one in my box of bike parts says 6V/3W on the metal). The wheel dynamo's are insanely inefficient and get hot everywhere which were the primary ones used with most incandecant lights.
  - 0_____0 1y ago
    hub dynamos are not particularly efficient. it's very difficult to make an electric machine that is efficient at the (very low speeds, relatively) that a bike wheel turns at. 60% sounds about right. However, safety lights use much less than 5W, and a modest but very useable headlight about 3W, so your figures are otherwise pretty close.
  - malfist 1y ago
    100W is pretty high for an untrained person. Back when I was cycling regularly I could hit those numbers but not every time. I took my first ride of the season and averaged a whooping 63 watts. Stealing 5 watts from that it taking away 8% of my energy. If you account for efficiency loss in the dynamic it's probably closer to 16% of my output. That's a huge chunk
joeblubaugh 1y ago
I’m sure a Lion pack weighs less than a dynamo
- wiether 1y ago
  I thought you were talking about those Lion[0] and it left me quite confused... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_(chocolate_bar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_(chocolate_bar)

I can't state how convenient hub dynamos are, no noise, no maintenance, unlikely to be robbed without stealing the whole bike, it just works, perfect for a city bike.

tomn 1y ago
I get why people like them, but they make way less sense when you work out the capacity of an equivalent weight (not to mention cost) of lithium cells. It's easy to get to about 90Wh, which will run a dynamo-powered light for 30 hours on max (most dynamos seem to be rated 3W). There are definitely cases where it makes sense, and not having to keep batteries charged is nice, it's just easy to miss how good batteries are these days.
- tomsmeding 1y ago
  Not having to take the light off the bike and charge it and then forget to take it back to the bike, not to mention forgetting charging it and finding out when it's dark, is completely worth having a dynamo.
  - tomn 1y ago
    A spare battery in your saddle-pack solves most of those problems. If you're worried about being without light, a (typical) dynamo system is more complicated and exposed than a battery system, so will be more prone to failure.
    - alanfranz 1y ago
      I suppose you’re a casual cyclist and you don’t commute on a daily basis. If you commute on a daily basis, a hub dynamo and light system is a bliss. Just hop on the bike and go. I have used bikes with Shimano, SP and Son for thousands of kms in all kind of weather and never really experienced a fault. It’s as simple as car lights - you just take them for granted. With battery powered lights you need to take them off and put them back; recharge them; remember to bring them with you and not lose them. A spare battery pack is not enough (front and rear) and may not work during cycling (not all lights can be charged while turned on). And, low quality battery powered lights tend to quickly break (2-3 years) while I now realize one of my b+m systems is 10y old already. Good battery powered lights will probably last more, but they’re as expensive as dynamo powered ones. So yeah, battery is ok and cheap for casual cycling, but very suboptimal if you want reliable lights every day throughout the year.
      - tomn 1y ago
        You're comparing a hub dynamo with cheap low-capacity rechargeable lights. Rechargeable lights from the usual suspects are generally not good, they are expensive for what they are, have low capacity, and don't have swappable standard-size batteries. They make dynamo systems look like a good deal, but if typical battery-powered lights were even close to their theoretical optimum I think people would be much less enthusiastic about dynamos.
        alanfranz 1y ago
        Good lights last more (I have a Blackburn lamp and it’s working) but it’s still less convenient than dynamo. You need to remove and remount it every time, with the risk of dropping or forgetting. Ofc if you mount fixed battery-powered lights and you could just swap a usb c battery, maybe it would compete with dynamo. But an easy swappable battery would still ve easy to steal (unless it’s inside the frame with a lock or sth like that)
    - numpad0 1y ago
      Typical non-hub dynamo lasts like 30 years parked outside, and nice ones cost like $10 on Amazon. You smack it and they start whining at you. They are only barely more complicated than a stew pan. Hub dynamos seem a bit more fragile, with a wire extending into the lightbulb, but never heard reliability is a concern with it...
      - andrewshadura 1y ago
        Why do you think hub dynamos are more fragile? And what do you mean about a lightbulb?
        numpad0 1y ago
        I mean, it does have like, a wire between the hub and the lamp body. I think parent comment mentioned something about fragile wires when I posted the reply, I should have quoted it.
    - imp0cat 1y ago
      A spare battery in your saddle-pack And then you have to worry about recharging/replacing two batteries instead of one. Yay for progress!
      - guappa 1y ago
        Don't worry, it will be stolen in 1 day.
  - franciscop 1y ago
    I live in Tokyo, and only drive in the city center. 90% of me having a light is the legal requirement of having so, I virtually never need it since the streets I usually ride are well-lit. The remainder 10% is that I like the solid feel of the bike overall and felt sad for the integrated light not to work TBH.
    - csunbird 1y ago
      When you are riding the bike in the city, the light is not for you to see things, it is for others to see and notice you.
      - nottorp 1y ago
        Can't emphasise that enough. Especially if you're into black clothing and have a black bike. "This showed that for cars DRL reduces the number of daytime injury crashes by 3-12%. The effect on fatal crashes can be estimated as somewhat greater (-15%)." https://swov.nl/system/files/publication-downloads/fs_drl_archived.pdf https://swov.nl/system/files/publication-downloads/fs_drl_ar... This is about cars/motorcycles and daytime, but it certainly applies to any moving vehicle at any time... When driving, I love those bicyclists that have a blinking rear light btw. Can't overlook them.
  - pmontra 1y ago
    In my experience engaging a dynamo is worth one switch of the gear on a 7 gear cassette. I accept the tradeoff of having to pocket the light.
    - Mashimo 1y ago
      I don't even notice a difference.
    - jval43 1y ago
      Not with a hub-type one. These work magnetically and you basically obly lose the 3-5W of power they produce.
      - Scoundreller 1y ago
        I want a 25w+ one that normally engages while braking, with a capacitor for non-braking times
- fatfox 1y ago
  They make a ton of sense when you’re riding long distance and when you don’t have access to a charger.
- Aardwolf 1y ago
  It's not about weight, it's about having the light work when you need it. Ensuring the battery is not empty at the time you want to ride it and it is night is not always convenient I'm talking about commute, not sports, here.
gonzo41 1y ago
If you like hub dynamos, give hub gears a try. My electric bike has nexus 7 hub gears. It's fantastic. There's essentially no maintenance.
- dobladov 1y ago
  Exactly my setup, a nexus hub with 8 speeds, the bike has been outside under rain and occasional snow, and it's completely reliable for my daily work commute.
analog31 1y ago
How are they for drag when you're not using the light? My only misgiving is: Which bike to put it on?
- dobladov 1y ago
  > Which bike to put it on? As mentioned, a city bike, I don't think a dynamo hub would be a practical choice for a racing bike or mountain bike, nor fit all riders. The drag is not an issue for a bike that I use to commute to work and go shopping, the convenience out weights by far the drag, and if the worry was weight and drag there are other parts that contribute much more like the carry bags, pannier rack, mudguards that again, are convenient. Another positive factor not mentioned would be environmental, no need to create waste with batteries.
- lnx01 1y ago
  I would imagine it's minimal. I'll never forget a demo I played with at a Science museum as a kid. A dynamo with a crank you can turn, and set of switches that allow you to turn on one, two, or three incandescent bulbs. The crank turns freely without load, and is increasingly more difficult to turn as load is added.

ortusdux 1y ago

How much energy do they rob? I can't think of dynamos without thinking of Bart Simpson - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaKjmxb7Qlc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaKjmxb7Qlc

Xylakant 1y ago
It depends both on the lights and the dynamo. Incandescent lights used substantial chunks of your pedaling power. LED lights need maybe 5W or so. Hub dynamos are pretty efficient. For an untrained person your average power output is around 100W. That means powering the light would be around 5% of your power if you’re using an efficient hub dynamo. That’s in the ballpark of “bad chain maintenance costs more energy”
- consp 1y ago
  > Incandescent lights used substantial chunks of your pedaling power. Not solely caused by the lights as they are about ~5W anyway (edit: the old one in my box of bike parts says 6V/3W on the metal). The wheel dynamo's are insanely inefficient and get hot everywhere which were the primary ones used with most incandecant lights.
- 0_____0 1y ago
  hub dynamos are not particularly efficient. it's very difficult to make an electric machine that is efficient at the (very low speeds, relatively) that a bike wheel turns at. 60% sounds about right. However, safety lights use much less than 5W, and a modest but very useable headlight about 3W, so your figures are otherwise pretty close.
- malfist 1y ago
  100W is pretty high for an untrained person. Back when I was cycling regularly I could hit those numbers but not every time. I took my first ride of the season and averaged a whooping 63 watts. Stealing 5 watts from that it taking away 8% of my energy. If you account for efficiency loss in the dynamic it's probably closer to 16% of my output. That's a huge chunk

joeblubaugh 1y ago

I’m sure a Lion pack weighs less than a dynamo

wiether 1y ago
I thought you were talking about those Lion[0] and it left me quite confused... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_(chocolate_bar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_(chocolate_bar)