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For a BYOD product it would be fine to add a blacklist of DM-SMR drives imho. Or have a big red banner and a taint flag. But that's not what Synology did. Als

For a BYOD product it would be fine to add a blacklist of DM-SMR drives imho. Or have a big red banner and a taint flag. But that's not what Synology did. Also, if the image on the Synology page is accurate, they are relabeled Toshiba drives. Which doesn't really seem a good choice for SMB/SOHO NAS devices, because the Toshiba "Machine Gun" MGxx drives are the loudest drives on the market.

sersi 2y ago
I had some 12TB WD ultrastar that I happily replaced with some Toshiba MG09ACA18TE. To my ears at least the toshiba sound signficantly more bearable than the ultrastar were (lower pitch so less disturbing). Due to living in a small apartment my NAS is in my living room so noise matters. That said, I've since added an ssd and moved almost everything to the ssd (docker, the database and all apps) and it's much nicer in term of noise.
numpad0 2y ago
It can't be programmatically identified because manufacturers actively hide them. There are ATA commands for that, DM-SMR drives lie to it. I wouldn't be sure why Toshiba M-prefixed 7K2 drives would be bad for NAS use cases. They're descendants of what were used in high performance SPARC servers. Hot, dense, obnoxious, but that's just Fujitsu. They're plenty reliable, performant, and perfect for your all-important on-line/near-line data! You just have to look away from bills(/s). 0: https://www.techpowerup.com/265841/some-western-digital-wd-red-hdds-allegedly-use-smr-a-big-nono-for-nas-and-raid https://www.techpowerup.com/265841/some-western-digital-wd-r... 1: https://www.techpowerup.com/265889/seagate-guilty-of-undisclosed-smr-on-certain-internal-hard-drive-models-too-report https://www.techpowerup.com/265889/seagate-guilty-of-undiscl... 2: https://www.smartmontools.org/ticket/1313 https://www.smartmontools.org/ticket/1313
m000 2y ago
TBF, the picture in TFA only shows rack-mounted Synology devices, where noise is not really a concern. Synologoy SMB/SOHO NAS devices should not be affected by the drive lockdown (for now).
- Heliosmaster 2y ago
  but that's the proposed change, that their Plus lineup which is generally targeted for SMB/SOHO/enthusiast market, will be working only with their drives
  - m000 2y ago
    Then the photo with the U-factor servers is obvs. a distraction. Thanks for the clarification.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  Per the article, it’s all “Plus” models from 2025 on, which definitely includes desktop 2-8 bay units. I have been a happy enough Synology user since 2014, even though I had to hardware repair my main DS1815+ twice in that time (Intel CPU bug and ATX power-on transistor replacement). Other than two hardware failures in 10 years (not good), the experience was great, including two easy storage expansions and the replacement of one failed drive. These were all BYOD, and the current drives are shucked WD reds with a white sticker (still CMR). I happily recommended them prior to this change and now will have to recommend against.
  - Melatonic 2y ago
    So basically buy one of the older models now ? Will new firmware updates to everything before this require the Synology branded drives ?
    - sokoloff 2y ago
      Seemingly not, at least not for the moment, based on the experiences of people migrating arrays [successfully] from older units and the massive backlash that would result if they trashed currently working arrays. If you’re going to buy a DSM unit, I’d definitely buy a 2024 or earlier model. But even as an overall happy user under their old go-to-market approach, I can’t recommend them now.

sersi 2y ago

I had some 12TB WD ultrastar that I happily replaced with some Toshiba MG09ACA18TE. To my ears at least the toshiba sound signficantly more bearable than the ultrastar were (lower pitch so less disturbing). Due to living in a small apartment my NAS is in my living room so noise matters. That said, I've since added an ssd and moved almost everything to the ssd (docker, the database and all apps) and it's much nicer in term of noise.

numpad0 2y ago

It can't be programmatically identified because manufacturers actively hide them. There are ATA commands for that, DM-SMR drives lie to it. I wouldn't be sure why Toshiba M-prefixed 7K2 drives would be bad for NAS use cases. They're descendants of what were used in high performance SPARC servers. Hot, dense, obnoxious, but that's just Fujitsu. They're plenty reliable, performant, and perfect for your all-important on-line/near-line data! You just have to look away from bills(/s). 0: https://www.techpowerup.com/265841/some-western-digital-wd-red-hdds-allegedly-use-smr-a-big-nono-for-nas-and-raid https://www.techpowerup.com/265841/some-western-digital-wd-r... 1: https://www.techpowerup.com/265889/seagate-guilty-of-undisclosed-smr-on-certain-internal-hard-drive-models-too-report https://www.techpowerup.com/265889/seagate-guilty-of-undiscl... 2: https://www.smartmontools.org/ticket/1313 https://www.smartmontools.org/ticket/1313

m000 2y ago

TBF, the picture in TFA only shows rack-mounted Synology devices, where noise is not really a concern. Synologoy SMB/SOHO NAS devices should not be affected by the drive lockdown (for now).

Heliosmaster 2y ago
but that's the proposed change, that their Plus lineup which is generally targeted for SMB/SOHO/enthusiast market, will be working only with their drives
- m000 2y ago
  Then the photo with the U-factor servers is obvs. a distraction. Thanks for the clarification.
sokoloff 2y ago
Per the article, it’s all “Plus” models from 2025 on, which definitely includes desktop 2-8 bay units. I have been a happy enough Synology user since 2014, even though I had to hardware repair my main DS1815+ twice in that time (Intel CPU bug and ATX power-on transistor replacement). Other than two hardware failures in 10 years (not good), the experience was great, including two easy storage expansions and the replacement of one failed drive. These were all BYOD, and the current drives are shucked WD reds with a white sticker (still CMR). I happily recommended them prior to this change and now will have to recommend against.
- Melatonic 2y ago
  So basically buy one of the older models now ? Will new firmware updates to everything before this require the Synology branded drives ?
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    Seemingly not, at least not for the moment, based on the experiences of people migrating arrays [successfully] from older units and the massive backlash that would result if they trashed currently working arrays. If you’re going to buy a DSM unit, I’d definitely buy a 2024 or earlier model. But even as an overall happy user under their old go-to-market approach, I can’t recommend them now.