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I think there is a class of device here that is missing. Low power but forever devices that have some basic functionality. Over time I could see this taking ove

I think there is a class of device here that is missing. Low power but forever devices that have some basic functionality. Over time I could see this taking over laptops and the like as ultra-low-power became more and more capable.

chii 2y ago
> Low power but forever devices that have some basic functionality. like paper? :D
chneu 2y ago
Low power consumption. slap a small set of solar panels on there like Garmin watches, and possibly add a wireless power generator. I could see a device like that having standby battery measured in years.
ct0 2y ago
There are a few commercial products popping up and marketing. I think youll find what you find here interesting: https://old.reddit.com/r/writerDeck/ https://old.reddit.com/r/writerDeck/ Im using a Boox palma 2 on a stand, and a Thinkpad Keyboard 2 to emulate the same thing. The battery life may not be 100 hours but considerable.
- jmward01 2y ago
  I'd love something ipad size with an attached keyboard/trackpad that did the very basics of compute but on a more modern stack. I think the biggest thing that would hold me back would likely be the slow refresh rate/no color in the display. I bet a setup like that with solar so is trickle charged could be built and have an effectively unlimited runtime. I wonder when high refresh rate/color e-ink like displays will finally make it?
nine_k 2y ago
Most people sell or give away fully functional, very powerful mobile phones, because of the end of the software support. Hardware is more than capable for a long time, and is often very durable. But it takes a special kind of audience to put up with decade-old unsupported software, let alone with IBM XT-level software (which I remember using). Security is not a consideration for such devices, because of their very limited number. Nobody is going to crack into your internet-connected Amiga except maybe some of your friends, as a prank. But a forever-device used for something substantial, something touching money in any way, would have to be much more up-to-date.
- idiotsecant 2y ago
  There are a lot of 'forever devices' currently touching money in major financial institutions.
  - gtirloni 2y ago
    Yea, and armies of engineers supporting them.
    - bigfatkitten 2y ago
      More often in my experience, it’s one or two greybeards who have been there for 30 years, and are the only two people still in the workforce (or still alive) who understand how it works.
  - bigfatkitten 2y ago
    I spent a good chunk of my career in banking. I had many conversations to the effect of “see that RS/6000 in the corner of the network diagram? It processes $45bn in payments every day.”
    - indycliff 2y ago
      did you work at Chase too
- Retric 2y ago
  I’ve never dumped a phone over its software. Ware, damage, swapping networks, meaningfully better hardware, or just losing the things explain basically all the replacements me or my friends / family have done. Sure, eventually people stop updating software to work on old devices but that’s because the overwhelming majority of people have already stoped using that hardware for other reasons.
  - MiddleEndian 2y ago
    I dumped my last phone, the Palm PVG100, because unwanted software updates made it too slow and ate up its battery life too quickly. It's too bad the PVG100 has the best form factor of any phone I've owned.
hliyan 2y ago
On that note, whatever happened to netbooks? As someone who writes a lot and need a mobile device to do it on, they used to be perfect. Can't seem to find the form factor anymore. Even the smallest Chromebook seems only slightly smaller than a laptop.
- FranOntanaya 2y ago
  It's tablet cases with bluetooth keyboard now.
- RainyDayTmrw 2y ago
  The industry got a lot better at making laptops thinner and screens bigger. Users liked thinner laptops with bigger screens.
- numpad0 2y ago
  Killed UMPC, then killed by iPhone/iPad.
- bigfatkitten 2y ago
  I had a Dell Latitude 2120 netbook for many years and I miss it. Small, decent display, good battery life, built like a bank vault. There’s nothing out there anymore with all of those properties.
- xaldir 2y ago
  For a time it was a new market, full of potential growth. Then it got mature, every one who wanted one had one and given the nature of the device (low cost/low performance) it wouldn't need to be renewed for some time. Some manufacturers went upmarket (bigger and more powerful devices for more money) blurring the line with their entry level laptops. It wasn't a recognisable market segment any more. At some point, the market must have both shrunk too much and merged into other segments for anyone to care. Mobile devices ate their lunch too I guess.
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  They're on eBay with absolutely cooked batteries lol. I bought an eepc for myself a while back, and a similar netbook recently for my partner, and while the batteries don't work very well, the netbooks themselves work alright with a lightweight Linux on them. I don't even bother with a desktop environment on mine. I'm pretty sure the battery packs in both of them are just some 18650 in a trench coat, so at some point I'll probably attempt to replace them and hope I don't start a fire
themanofpow 2y ago
There is a community of people that have been making "writer-decks". It might be similar to what you are describing. https://www.reddit.com/r/writerDeck/ https://www.reddit.com/r/writerDeck/
carlosjobim 2y ago
Ideal for any kind of outside jobs, including for taking restaurant orders on a sunny patio. With a stylus and hand writing recognition, the waiter wouldn't have to walk through a selection tree, but instead simply write the order like it was a traditional piece of paper.
patapong 2y ago
I agree! Ten years ago, we had netbooks with adequate performance for many tasks, and battery life of 10+ hours. Given the advances in CPUs since then, we should be able to pack similar performance onto much smaller CPUs, using much less power. Screens have also advanced since then. Where are the super thin and light laptops that allow me to write emails, do light coding and browsing and SSH into other devices with 50 hours of battery life?
- Atheb 2y ago
  Not a perfect solution but I've used an ipad with a magic keyboard for this exact purpose when travelling.
- creshal 2y ago
  > Where are the super thin and light laptops that allow me to write emails, do light coding and browsing and SSH into other devices with 50 hours of battery life? They got eaten by tablets. We used to have netbooks and subnotebooks, but they were too weak for mainline Windows after XP (perfectly adequate with Linux, tho), and there wasn't a clear path forward for them. These days, iPads and Android convertibles with keyboard covers are reasonably okay for the use case, if you don't need full lap-top ergonomics (they definitely benefit from a proper table). ARM-based laptops (Apple and otherwise) are slooowly closing that gap again, but you're "only" looking at ~20 hours battery life, last I checked. Which is still better than the last batch of subnotebooks ca. 2010, which needed like 3lbs of batteries to reach that same endurance with a dual-core 1GHz Core Duo and less RAM than your average modern tablet.
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  You don't need 50hr of battery life. If you're on a network, you're near power of some kind. Laptops these days use less than 10W in light usage and will run off anything with a USB power port. This is a "solved problem" by the mainstream retail PC manufacturers...
  - bigfatkitten 2y ago
    > If you're on a network, you're near power of some kind. Unless you're not, because you're using an LTE modem, or inflight wifi on an aircraft without in-seat power, or any of a number of other real world scenarios.
adolph 2y ago
> Low power but forever devices that have some basic functionality Just jailbreak your eink Kindle? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969

chii 2y ago

> Low power but forever devices that have some basic functionality. like paper? :D

chneu 2y ago

Low power consumption. slap a small set of solar panels on there like Garmin watches, and possibly add a wireless power generator. I could see a device like that having standby battery measured in years.

ct0 2y ago

There are a few commercial products popping up and marketing. I think youll find what you find here interesting: https://old.reddit.com/r/writerDeck/ https://old.reddit.com/r/writerDeck/ Im using a Boox palma 2 on a stand, and a Thinkpad Keyboard 2 to emulate the same thing. The battery life may not be 100 hours but considerable.

jmward01 2y ago
I'd love something ipad size with an attached keyboard/trackpad that did the very basics of compute but on a more modern stack. I think the biggest thing that would hold me back would likely be the slow refresh rate/no color in the display. I bet a setup like that with solar so is trickle charged could be built and have an effectively unlimited runtime. I wonder when high refresh rate/color e-ink like displays will finally make it?

nine_k 2y ago

Most people sell or give away fully functional, very powerful mobile phones, because of the end of the software support. Hardware is more than capable for a long time, and is often very durable. But it takes a special kind of audience to put up with decade-old unsupported software, let alone with IBM XT-level software (which I remember using). Security is not a consideration for such devices, because of their very limited number. Nobody is going to crack into your internet-connected Amiga except maybe some of your friends, as a prank. But a forever-device used for something substantial, something touching money in any way, would have to be much more up-to-date.

idiotsecant 2y ago
There are a lot of 'forever devices' currently touching money in major financial institutions.
- gtirloni 2y ago
  Yea, and armies of engineers supporting them.
  - bigfatkitten 2y ago
    More often in my experience, it’s one or two greybeards who have been there for 30 years, and are the only two people still in the workforce (or still alive) who understand how it works.
- bigfatkitten 2y ago
  I spent a good chunk of my career in banking. I had many conversations to the effect of “see that RS/6000 in the corner of the network diagram? It processes $45bn in payments every day.”
  - indycliff 2y ago
    did you work at Chase too
Retric 2y ago
I’ve never dumped a phone over its software. Ware, damage, swapping networks, meaningfully better hardware, or just losing the things explain basically all the replacements me or my friends / family have done. Sure, eventually people stop updating software to work on old devices but that’s because the overwhelming majority of people have already stoped using that hardware for other reasons.
- MiddleEndian 2y ago
  I dumped my last phone, the Palm PVG100, because unwanted software updates made it too slow and ate up its battery life too quickly. It's too bad the PVG100 has the best form factor of any phone I've owned.

hliyan 2y ago

On that note, whatever happened to netbooks? As someone who writes a lot and need a mobile device to do it on, they used to be perfect. Can't seem to find the form factor anymore. Even the smallest Chromebook seems only slightly smaller than a laptop.

FranOntanaya 2y ago
It's tablet cases with bluetooth keyboard now.
RainyDayTmrw 2y ago
The industry got a lot better at making laptops thinner and screens bigger. Users liked thinner laptops with bigger screens.
numpad0 2y ago
Killed UMPC, then killed by iPhone/iPad.
bigfatkitten 2y ago
I had a Dell Latitude 2120 netbook for many years and I miss it. Small, decent display, good battery life, built like a bank vault. There’s nothing out there anymore with all of those properties.
xaldir 2y ago
For a time it was a new market, full of potential growth. Then it got mature, every one who wanted one had one and given the nature of the device (low cost/low performance) it wouldn't need to be renewed for some time. Some manufacturers went upmarket (bigger and more powerful devices for more money) blurring the line with their entry level laptops. It wasn't a recognisable market segment any more. At some point, the market must have both shrunk too much and merged into other segments for anyone to care. Mobile devices ate their lunch too I guess.
voidUpdate 2y ago
They're on eBay with absolutely cooked batteries lol. I bought an eepc for myself a while back, and a similar netbook recently for my partner, and while the batteries don't work very well, the netbooks themselves work alright with a lightweight Linux on them. I don't even bother with a desktop environment on mine. I'm pretty sure the battery packs in both of them are just some 18650 in a trench coat, so at some point I'll probably attempt to replace them and hope I don't start a fire

themanofpow 2y ago

There is a community of people that have been making "writer-decks". It might be similar to what you are describing. https://www.reddit.com/r/writerDeck/ https://www.reddit.com/r/writerDeck/

carlosjobim 2y ago

Ideal for any kind of outside jobs, including for taking restaurant orders on a sunny patio. With a stylus and hand writing recognition, the waiter wouldn't have to walk through a selection tree, but instead simply write the order like it was a traditional piece of paper.

patapong 2y ago

I agree! Ten years ago, we had netbooks with adequate performance for many tasks, and battery life of 10+ hours. Given the advances in CPUs since then, we should be able to pack similar performance onto much smaller CPUs, using much less power. Screens have also advanced since then. Where are the super thin and light laptops that allow me to write emails, do light coding and browsing and SSH into other devices with 50 hours of battery life?

Atheb 2y ago
Not a perfect solution but I've used an ipad with a magic keyboard for this exact purpose when travelling.
creshal 2y ago
> Where are the super thin and light laptops that allow me to write emails, do light coding and browsing and SSH into other devices with 50 hours of battery life? They got eaten by tablets. We used to have netbooks and subnotebooks, but they were too weak for mainline Windows after XP (perfectly adequate with Linux, tho), and there wasn't a clear path forward for them. These days, iPads and Android convertibles with keyboard covers are reasonably okay for the use case, if you don't need full lap-top ergonomics (they definitely benefit from a proper table). ARM-based laptops (Apple and otherwise) are slooowly closing that gap again, but you're "only" looking at ~20 hours battery life, last I checked. Which is still better than the last batch of subnotebooks ca. 2010, which needed like 3lbs of batteries to reach that same endurance with a dual-core 1GHz Core Duo and less RAM than your average modern tablet.
KennyBlanken 2y ago
You don't need 50hr of battery life. If you're on a network, you're near power of some kind. Laptops these days use less than 10W in light usage and will run off anything with a USB power port. This is a "solved problem" by the mainstream retail PC manufacturers...
- bigfatkitten 2y ago
  > If you're on a network, you're near power of some kind. Unless you're not, because you're using an LTE modem, or inflight wifi on an aircraft without in-seat power, or any of a number of other real world scenarios.

adolph 2y ago

> Low power but forever devices that have some basic functionality Just jailbreak your eink Kindle? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969