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Nothing from the Bible indicates that hell is empty, so that is indeed an interesting response from the Pope.

MisterBastahrd 2y ago
Nothing from the Bible indicates that hell exists in the way that Westerners perceive it.
fleabitdev 2y ago
Yes - I think it caught my attention because it was such a mystery. It was a welcome thing to hear from one of the most powerful people in the world, but it came like a bolt from the blue. As far as I know, he never revisited the topic.
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code_for_monkey 2y ago
its not biblical but its very catholic, its optimistic. I've heard it from other catholics, its just a hope that at the end of everyones life they accepted jesus and made it into heaven.
Trasmatta 2y ago
The Bible has very little to say about hell in general.
- fastball 2y ago
  Gonna disagree with you there. https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell
  - Trasmatta 2y ago
    It's not that simple, because there are multiple concepts and Hebrew and Greek words that were translated as "hell". And many of those passages don't mention hell at all, but are just interpreted as such by readers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christianity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christianity
  - andybak 2y ago
    Modern academic scholarship paints a very complex picture: https://www.bartehrman.com/hell-in-the-bible/ https://www.bartehrman.com/hell-in-the-bible/ I would argue that reading random quotes without context can be misleading. Unless of course you believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired bible - which is a fairly extreme position to take.
    - Ajedi32 2y ago
      > I would argue that reading random quotes without context can be misleading. Unless of course you believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired bible - which is a fairly extreme position to take. Those two statements don't follow. You can believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired Bible and still think taking random quotes out of context is bad exegesis.
      - andybak 2y ago
        I see what you mean but I wasn't making a formal logical argument. Rather I meant something like "These particular quotes are more likely to be regarded as inherently meaningful on their own by someone who believes in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired Bible" Not my best-crafted piece of self-expression I will admit.
  - aeturnum 2y ago
    Did you read these? I think they actually go against what you argue. One of the passages about "hell" is John 3:16, which could not be less about hell if it tried (IMO). Also the passages that actually mention hell/hades are extremely sparse on details: it's separate from god, there will be fire and it will be unpleasant. Considering the length of the bible, I think this list shows that the bible has "very little" to say about hell in general.
- mkehrt 2y ago
  Catholicism isn't Protestantism. The idea that the Bible is the only source of truth is a Protestant idea and thus is very visible in the US. Catholicism, however, teaches that tradition and church teachings are sources of truth on par with the Bible. As such, for many teachings, especially those like Hell where the Bible is unclear, what it says isn't very relevant to Catholic doctine.
kergonath 2y ago
Why would that be? There is a rich tradition of theology outside the Bible. Most popes are able to have a thought on a subject without quoting it.
andybak 2y ago
The bible only has sparse and often contradictory references to hell - so it's very difficult to state "what the Bible says about hell" as if there's a unified picture laid out.
- hylaride 2y ago
  I've heard descriptions of hell of everything from the classic "fire and torture" we all know, to it being a total and complete detachment from god (in a disappointed and kicked out of the house by your parents kind of way). It's similar to descriptions of Satin. Everything from the horns and pitchfork all the way down to a "beautiful fallen angel" that he technically was explained to be in the bible. I've always just assumed the descriptions that work to keep people fearful of leaving the religion as whatever is used at the time (saying this as somebody who is agnostic).
  - packetlost 2y ago
    The modern concept of hell came from Dante's The Devine Comedy which was, ironically, a criticism of the contemporary church.
    - o11c 2y ago
      That's not exactly true. The main thing that is popularized by Dante is "demons are performing the punishment" (rather than being punished as in scripture ... but the general idea goes back to Gnosticism) ... and I guess "hell has circles" if we count those as significant. "Hell is a place of fire and torment" is explicitly Biblical (Luke 16), even if there are also mentions of Hell without that (and some mentions of fire and torment without calling it "Hell"). Annihilationism vs Eternal Conscious Torment is the main point that isn't given a perfectly clear answer in scripture; there are verses that hint toward each. Limbo and Purgatory are not in the Bible, but predate Dante. "Deal with the Devil" predates Dante and is only weakly founded in scripture. "Devils" (plural, as opposed to "the Devil") being distinct from "Demons" is a translation artifact, popularized by Dungeons & Dragons. There being various types of demons long precedes Dante. Variants of Universalism (including "Nobody goes to Hell" and "it's possible to escape Hell") are explicitly rejected in scripture. Those are all the aspects of "modern concept of hell" that I can think of (let me know if you can think of more), and the connection to Dante seems pretty weak.

Nothing from the Bible indicates that hell exists in the way that Westerners perceive it.

Yes - I think it caught my attention because it was such a mystery. It was a welcome thing to hear from one of the most powerful people in the world, but it came like a bolt from the blue. As far as I know, he never revisited the topic.

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code_for_monkey 2y ago

its not biblical but its very catholic, its optimistic. I've heard it from other catholics, its just a hope that at the end of everyones life they accepted jesus and made it into heaven.

Trasmatta 2y ago

The Bible has very little to say about hell in general.

fastball 2y ago
Gonna disagree with you there. https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell
- Trasmatta 2y ago
  It's not that simple, because there are multiple concepts and Hebrew and Greek words that were translated as "hell". And many of those passages don't mention hell at all, but are just interpreted as such by readers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christianity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christianity
- andybak 2y ago
  Modern academic scholarship paints a very complex picture: https://www.bartehrman.com/hell-in-the-bible/ https://www.bartehrman.com/hell-in-the-bible/ I would argue that reading random quotes without context can be misleading. Unless of course you believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired bible - which is a fairly extreme position to take.
  - Ajedi32 2y ago
    > I would argue that reading random quotes without context can be misleading. Unless of course you believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired bible - which is a fairly extreme position to take. Those two statements don't follow. You can believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired Bible and still think taking random quotes out of context is bad exegesis.
    - andybak 2y ago
      I see what you mean but I wasn't making a formal logical argument. Rather I meant something like "These particular quotes are more likely to be regarded as inherently meaningful on their own by someone who believes in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired Bible" Not my best-crafted piece of self-expression I will admit.
- aeturnum 2y ago
  Did you read these? I think they actually go against what you argue. One of the passages about "hell" is John 3:16, which could not be less about hell if it tried (IMO). Also the passages that actually mention hell/hades are extremely sparse on details: it's separate from god, there will be fire and it will be unpleasant. Considering the length of the bible, I think this list shows that the bible has "very little" to say about hell in general.
mkehrt 2y ago
Catholicism isn't Protestantism. The idea that the Bible is the only source of truth is a Protestant idea and thus is very visible in the US. Catholicism, however, teaches that tradition and church teachings are sources of truth on par with the Bible. As such, for many teachings, especially those like Hell where the Bible is unclear, what it says isn't very relevant to Catholic doctine.

kergonath 2y ago

Why would that be? There is a rich tradition of theology outside the Bible. Most popes are able to have a thought on a subject without quoting it.

andybak 2y ago

The bible only has sparse and often contradictory references to hell - so it's very difficult to state "what the Bible says about hell" as if there's a unified picture laid out.

hylaride 2y ago
I've heard descriptions of hell of everything from the classic "fire and torture" we all know, to it being a total and complete detachment from god (in a disappointed and kicked out of the house by your parents kind of way). It's similar to descriptions of Satin. Everything from the horns and pitchfork all the way down to a "beautiful fallen angel" that he technically was explained to be in the bible. I've always just assumed the descriptions that work to keep people fearful of leaving the religion as whatever is used at the time (saying this as somebody who is agnostic).
- packetlost 2y ago
  The modern concept of hell came from Dante's The Devine Comedy which was, ironically, a criticism of the contemporary church.
  - o11c 2y ago
    That's not exactly true. The main thing that is popularized by Dante is "demons are performing the punishment" (rather than being punished as in scripture ... but the general idea goes back to Gnosticism) ... and I guess "hell has circles" if we count those as significant. "Hell is a place of fire and torment" is explicitly Biblical (Luke 16), even if there are also mentions of Hell without that (and some mentions of fire and torment without calling it "Hell"). Annihilationism vs Eternal Conscious Torment is the main point that isn't given a perfectly clear answer in scripture; there are verses that hint toward each. Limbo and Purgatory are not in the Bible, but predate Dante. "Deal with the Devil" predates Dante and is only weakly founded in scripture. "Devils" (plural, as opposed to "the Devil") being distinct from "Demons" is a translation artifact, popularized by Dungeons & Dragons. There being various types of demons long precedes Dante. Variants of Universalism (including "Nobody goes to Hell" and "it's possible to escape Hell") are explicitly rejected in scripture. Those are all the aspects of "modern concept of hell" that I can think of (let me know if you can think of more), and the connection to Dante seems pretty weak.