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I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.
by CKMo 1y ago
I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.
- jamesblonde 1y agoSame here. Although I grew up a Catholic and am now an atheist, my father counselled me that there were few institutions in the world that look after the downtrodden. The Catholic church has often not done that, but under Francis moved more towards that goal than any other time in recent history.
- B1FF_PSUVM 1y ago> look after the downtrodden. The Catholic church gifted all women indissoluble marriage, which was practiced by the Roman aristocracy as "confarreatio". This was trashed as soon as possible, and the trashing was billed as great progress.
- make3 1y agothis is terribly inaccurate. they teach gainst using birth control even in poor, AIDS ridden regions (see Mother Theresa in Africa), treat women as lesser beings (including not recognizing that marital rape is a thing), cause the mistreatment of queer and homosexual and trans people, etc etc
- inemesitaffia 1y agoAny Abrahamic religion that teaches otherwise isn't compatible with tradition or scripture period. Also the condom thing is false. Keep up to date.
- make3 1y agoI don't keep up to date with how slightly less random the fairy tales decided to be this year
- yodsanklai 1y ago> .. even as an atheist lots of christians didn't like him, considering he was too progressive
- conductr 1y agoI think these are two sides of the same coin
- kome 1y agoi saw this only on the internet tho, and mainly the english speaking internet, never in real life.
- inemesitaffia 1y agoThis just isn't true. Anyone who hangs around people who follow the church happenings would know even if they were in support of his actions.
- numbers_guy 1y agoOnly American Protesting Catholics had issues with him. The same ones that post Deus Vult memes on Facebook.
- gambiting 1y agoPlenty(well, some) Catholics in Poland had an issue with him for the exact same reason - just way too progressive for them. Although I do think that American Catholics are particularly.....fervent in their beliefs.
- somenameforme 1y agoLook up some numbers, his approval ratings outside of America were rapidly declining (at least in Latin America). [1] Interestingly the US is the one place where his approval ratings didn't decline over time, probably owing to the perfectly divided nature of contemporary politics. As he lost support from one side he gained it in equal proportions from the other. But in places like Argentina, his birth place no less, his approval rating dropped 27 points as he got increasingly involved in Progressive stuff. [1] - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/26/how-people-in-latin-america-and-the-u-s-view-pope-francis/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/26/how-peopl...
- dredmorbius 1y agoA prevalent sentiment. I'd researched popes' policies and statements toward the poor some years back, and he really had no peer going back centuries. Partial exception in the late 1900s, under Leo XIII (1878--1903), in the encyclical Rerum novarum.
- andrepd 1y agoRerum Novarum was the basis of catholic social teaching since, so... But yes, one thing is statements another is actions, regarding the latter the Latin Church's actions have often not been in keeping with their lofty writings.
- black_13 1y ago[dead]
- glimshe 1y agoI'm not religious either, but was educated in a Jesuit school. He brought a well needed breath of fresh air to the church. He was a pope for our times. Let's see if the church will be able to make another strong selection to replace him.
- amarcheschi 1y ago[dead]
- heresie-dabord 1y agoHe riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". [0] I will always applaud a person who retreats — even just a little — from dogma and fanaticism. https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/29/187009384/Pope-Francis-Even-Atheists-Can-Be-Redeemed https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/29/187009384/...
- kergonath 1y ago> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". Which is "interesting", considering how much of the New Testament is about redemption and reaching out to outsiders. Aren’t we all supposed to be God’s creation, and wasn’t Jesus supposed to teach us about salvation, redemption and forgiveness? (And by "interesting", I mean that it is yet another of example cognitive dissonance amongst fundamentalists. If anyone can be redeemed, it implies that atheists can, as well.) > I will always applaud a person who retreats — even just a little — from dogma and fanaticism. Indeed. He was not perfect but he was better than most. I hope the next one won’t be a catholic version of patriarch Kirill.
- codr7 1y agoMind explaining your issues with Kirill? Haven't really been paying attention. Wasn't he the one who got Russia into defending persecuted Christians wherever (Syria etc)?
- kergonath 1y ago[flagged]
- hylaride 1y agoRead up on him more. He's essentially former KGB that was originally assigned to keep an eye on the token remnants of the church in Soviet Russia. He's now saying the war against Ukraine is "holy and justified", signing up to fight is "guaranteed to wipe away your sins", etc. He's designed to manipulate a segment of the population. He's Putin's method to "religiously justify" whatever Putin wants.
- libertine 1y ago[flagged]
- code_for_monkey 1y ago[flagged]
- snozolli 1y agoUkraine is fighting to defend its land, not against an extermination campaign like Palestine False. Russia has sought the cultural genocide of Ukraine for hundreds of years. https://ukraineworld.org/en/articles/basics/linguicide-ukrainian-russia https://ukraineworld.org/en/articles/basics/linguicide-ukrai... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-history-of-subjugating-ukraine/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-history-of-subjugating-... https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/04/23/russia-ukraine-cultural-genocide-looting-indoctrination-deporatation/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/04/23/russia-ukraine-cultural... https://academic.oup.com/jicj/article/21/2/233/7197410 https://academic.oup.com/jicj/article/21/2/233/7197410 https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/why-russias-war-ukraine-genocide https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/why-russias-war-ukrai... This is why they fire missiles at museums and libraries. This is why they steal Ukrainian children and ship them to Russia for adoption. This is why they deport Ukrainian citizens to Siberia and bring in Russians to replace them.
- libertine 1y ago[flagged]
- fooList 1y ago[flagged]
- code_for_monkey 1y ago[flagged]
- linsomniac 1y ago"An athiest doesn't believe in 2,000 gods, a Christian doesn't believe in 1,999 gods." -- Ricky Gervais
- mrangle 1y agoRicky is smart, but not smart enough.
- Capricorn2481 1y agoMaybe not, but dismissing this quote outright is to dismiss something fundamental to our psychology, and our history.
- mrangle 1y agoI'm dismissing it on its lack of logic (not smart enough), even though it has a superficial patina of logic (smart). That is, I don't find it fundamental to our psychology nor history. To address your perspective. It's an atheists view, sure. It assumes that if one god is real, then all gods must be real. Because in the mind of the atheist, all are equal in that they are imaginary or, at best, avatars of psychological phenomena. It necessarily assumes the inverse logic that if 1,999 gods are fake, then 2,000 gods must be fake. Again, because they are all fundamentally equal. And therefore it is the Christians that are illogical because they have dismissed 1999 gods as fake but couldn't quite get there for the Last God Standing. I believe that's the sum of it. Which is a statement that about illustrates the intellectual limit for atheism. I will give Ricky credit for that much. Where Ricky's quip stops and Christian logic starts is that Christians know that their singular God is not imaginary nor an avatar, but is a living being. With the figurative 1999 additional gods indeed being either imaginary, psychological avatars, or worse. Which is clear to the Christian, because he understands something singularly fundamental about Christianity's God that others may not. This fundamental characteristic, at minimum, is the difference between real and fake. At which point the atheist would quip that there is no logic to see the Christian God as different from the other 1999 Gods, and as concrete. The Christian would finish up with telling the atheist that their failure to see the difference is a failure in being able to interpret the Bible, a failure in being able to interpret the Christian religion, and a failure to understand their own nature including from where they come. Some of this lack of understanding on the part of atheists is rooted in a lack of perspective that is otherwise glaringly true, and a lack of logical rigor. In other words, they take too many lies on faith. The conversation frequently continues with a debate over supposed proofs rooted in belief (faith) for atheists. With the Christian making more general appeals to their own faith that is rooted in Biblical and religious interpretation, ideally combined with their own verifying observations about the nature of the World. Or, for those who have blindly committed based on instinct, then just appeals to faith alone. Which is also acceptable, because it is a correct instinct. Being a Christian doesn't hinge on knowledge alone. It hinges on faith. There are good reasons for this state of affairs. What both sides will agree on is that he who believes in the least lies "wins" so to speak. The process of parsing being roughly parallel to discovering the rules of a game. The disagreement is over the substance of the lies. What Judeo-Christianity does is attempt to convey those rules in clear-enough language, even if the motivation to follow them is solely based on faith. With deeper Bible reading often being revelatory for greater insight. Whereas the atheist dismisses the traditional rules out of lack of faith and lack of understanding, and often then devolves into inventing his own rules. Which is specifically against the rules, but does align with the atheist's chaos theory of his own existence.
- dkarl 1y agoHe felt like a throwback to me, in a good way. He reminded me of a time when Christians weren't so afraid of being subsumed by the secular progressive mainstream, when they could still see love and forgiveness as the core of their faith.
- yoyohello13 1y agoHe is one of the few religious leaders who actually gave me a positive view of religion. He seemed like a really great human.