5 ms·

Important to note that Christianity also spread amongst the poor/common/persecuted folk first. It wasn't really spread initially by any power structure or crusa

by ivape 2y ago

Important to note that Christianity also spread amongst the poor/common/persecuted folk first. It wasn't really spread initially by any power structure or crusade. And Christ straight up kicking out business from the church (as in he flipped their tables over, literally): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

pzmarzly 2y ago
Also, it was spread BY the poor. Early Christians happily donated away all their wealth, thinking the Christ will come and bring an end to the Roman empire any day now. There is a theory that this was a critical factor in how fast the early Christianity spread across the Roman Empire - that these newly-bankrupted believers had no choice but to travel and try recruit new members to the Church, in a Ponzi-scheme-like fashion (except nobody was cashing out).
goatlover 2y ago
The Jewish Temple wasn't a church. Animals were sold there for people who couldn't bring animals with them to sacrifice on that Jewish holiday when they made pilgrimage to Jerusalem. There was plenty of disagreements between Jewish sects. We get the early Christianized perspective on some of the disagreements the Jesus movement had with the Pharisees and Sadducees, who also didn't agree with one another. Paul wasn't poor. He was an educated Pharisee who could write Greek, like Philo or Josephus. Some of the communities he wrote to like the one in Rome probably weren't poor either. But the Jesus movement led by James the Just and Peter after his death probably was, if the Ebionites were their 2nd-4th century descendants.
elcritch 2y ago
It’s interesting to use crusade in that fashion. The origins of the Christian crusades were to help free lands with still largely Christian populations from Muslim conquerors. It wasn’t to spread Christianity. Now the crusade’s definitely went awry and became an excuse for Venetians and others to take land and power. Especially by the fourth crusade and sacking of Constantinople, etc.
- jowea 2y ago
  Depends which crusades. The Baltic Crusades definitively were to spread Christianity.
- sorokod 2y ago
  Southern France was largely Christian yet Albigensian Crusade was a thing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
anon291 2y ago
It's still left wing coded in many non Christian areas. For example, India. It came as a surprise for my parents that Christianity is right wing in America, but all American political parties are part of the global left in general.
- slater 2y ago
  all American political parties are part of the global left in general The Republican Party is very much not part of the "global left". By global standards, they're far right. And the dems are centrist, not left.
  - anon291 2y ago
    Yes it is. Saying you shouldn't educate the lower classes or not educate girls would be met with huge resistance from most Republicans, whereas that is a common enough sentiment in many areas. People who fought for that are considered left wing. America is a fundamentally leftist nation. The social issues American political parties fight over are not applicable in most parts of the world. In most parts of the world left wing political movements (communists) hold the same social lines as the GOP. From a property perspective, America never had to deal with land redistribution because America never had a feudal system that required it. This property rights make sense in America in a way they didnt in feudal systems. For example the communist party of Kerala enacted major land reform to redistribute land, but now that the land is redistributed, ownership carries on as normal. America had the opportunity to skip the first step. Americans have no idea how good they have it
    - dibujaron 2y ago
      This is an interesting perspective, thank you for sharing. We often hear that (compared with Europe, I suppose) America's two parties are relatively far right. Interesting to see the opposite opinion.
      - jowea 2y ago
        I think people saying that are comparing them to their favourite European social democracy yes.
m463 2y ago
We need an adblocker like that. Every poor person's phone and browser is turning into a cash register for thieves and merchants.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Christianity also spread amongst the poor/common/persecuted folk first Modern Christianity is probably closer to what Justinian codified [1] (to when the first Bibles date [2]) than earlier traditions. (Not an expert.) [1] https://www.britannica.com/biography/Justinian-I/Ecclesiastical-policy https://www.britannica.com/biography/Justinian-I/Ecclesiasti... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus

by ivape 2y ago

pzmarzly 2y ago

Also, it was spread BY the poor. Early Christians happily donated away all their wealth, thinking the Christ will come and bring an end to the Roman empire any day now. There is a theory that this was a critical factor in how fast the early Christianity spread across the Roman Empire - that these newly-bankrupted believers had no choice but to travel and try recruit new members to the Church, in a Ponzi-scheme-like fashion (except nobody was cashing out).

goatlover 2y ago

The Jewish Temple wasn't a church. Animals were sold there for people who couldn't bring animals with them to sacrifice on that Jewish holiday when they made pilgrimage to Jerusalem. There was plenty of disagreements between Jewish sects. We get the early Christianized perspective on some of the disagreements the Jesus movement had with the Pharisees and Sadducees, who also didn't agree with one another. Paul wasn't poor. He was an educated Pharisee who could write Greek, like Philo or Josephus. Some of the communities he wrote to like the one in Rome probably weren't poor either. But the Jesus movement led by James the Just and Peter after his death probably was, if the Ebionites were their 2nd-4th century descendants.

elcritch 2y ago

It’s interesting to use crusade in that fashion. The origins of the Christian crusades were to help free lands with still largely Christian populations from Muslim conquerors. It wasn’t to spread Christianity. Now the crusade’s definitely went awry and became an excuse for Venetians and others to take land and power. Especially by the fourth crusade and sacking of Constantinople, etc.

jowea 2y ago
Depends which crusades. The Baltic Crusades definitively were to spread Christianity.
sorokod 2y ago
Southern France was largely Christian yet Albigensian Crusade was a thing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

anon291 2y ago

It's still left wing coded in many non Christian areas. For example, India. It came as a surprise for my parents that Christianity is right wing in America, but all American political parties are part of the global left in general.

slater 2y ago
all American political parties are part of the global left in general The Republican Party is very much not part of the "global left". By global standards, they're far right. And the dems are centrist, not left.
- anon291 2y ago
  Yes it is. Saying you shouldn't educate the lower classes or not educate girls would be met with huge resistance from most Republicans, whereas that is a common enough sentiment in many areas. People who fought for that are considered left wing. America is a fundamentally leftist nation. The social issues American political parties fight over are not applicable in most parts of the world. In most parts of the world left wing political movements (communists) hold the same social lines as the GOP. From a property perspective, America never had to deal with land redistribution because America never had a feudal system that required it. This property rights make sense in America in a way they didnt in feudal systems. For example the communist party of Kerala enacted major land reform to redistribute land, but now that the land is redistributed, ownership carries on as normal. America had the opportunity to skip the first step. Americans have no idea how good they have it
  - dibujaron 2y ago
    This is an interesting perspective, thank you for sharing. We often hear that (compared with Europe, I suppose) America's two parties are relatively far right. Interesting to see the opposite opinion.
    - jowea 2y ago
      I think people saying that are comparing them to their favourite European social democracy yes.

m463 2y ago

We need an adblocker like that. Every poor person's phone and browser is turning into a cash register for thieves and merchants.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Christianity also spread amongst the poor/common/persecuted folk first Modern Christianity is probably closer to what Justinian codified [1] (to when the first Bibles date [2]) than earlier traditions. (Not an expert.) [1] https://www.britannica.com/biography/Justinian-I/Ecclesiastical-policy https://www.britannica.com/biography/Justinian-I/Ecclesiasti... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus