4 ms·

Here's o4-mini-high solving riddles: > What weighs more; a pound of courage or a pound coin? > They weigh the same—each is a “pound.” A pound of courage and a

by Y_Y 2y ago

Here's o4-mini-high solving riddles: > What weighs more; a pound of courage or a pound coin? > They weigh the same—each is a “pound.” A pound of courage and a pound coin both come out to one pound in weight! https://chatgpt.com/share/68053ad0-aae4-800d-95ff-5b5b0a9a3837 https://chatgpt.com/share/68053ad0-aae4-800d-95ff-5b5b0a9a38... I didn't know what AGI is, but I know this isn't it.

hannofcart 2y ago
Sonnet 3.7 (Thinking) gave me: :::thinking This question is playing with words and units. A "pound of courage" refers to a metaphorical measurement of the abstract concept of courage, using the imperial weight unit "pound" (which equals 453.59 grams). A "pound coin" refers to the physical currency of the United Kingdom, which is called a "pound" but is a unit of currency, not weight. A physical pound coin weighs about 8-9 grams (specifically, the current 12-sided pound coin weighs 8.75 grams). So comparing them: - A pound of courage would weigh 453.59 grams (if courage had physical weight, which it doesn't since it's an abstract concept) - A pound coin weighs approximately 8.75 grams The trick in this question is that it's comparing: 1. A specific weight of an abstract concept (pound of courage) 2. A physical coin whose name includes the word "pound" but refers to currency, not weight Since the question asks what weighs more, and weight is a physical property, I should point out that courage is abstract and doesn't have physical weight, while a pound coin is a physical object with a measurable weight. ::: # Comparing "A Pound of Courage" vs "A Pound Coin" This is a play on words with different meanings of "pound": - A *pound of courage* refers to a metaphorical pound (weight unit) of an abstract concept - A *pound coin* is a physical British currency coin (which weighs about 8.75 grams) If we're talking about physical weight: - A pound of courage doesn't have physical weight since courage is abstract - A pound coin has a definite weight of approximately 8.75 grams If we interpreted "pound of courage" as literally one pound (453.59 grams) of something, it would weigh significantly more than the coin. This question is clever because it compares a metaphorical measurement with a physical object whose name includes the word "pound" but in a different context.
- jpc0 2y ago
  Yet for me I will draw analogies the other way, maybe you can prompt the AI into the chain of thought but in my experience that doesn't happen. I would look along the lines of the value of a human being based on traits vs payment which is likely what the original phrase intended. Is paying someone more better than getting a better candidate but paying them less.
  - mpalmer 2y ago
    It's a stretch to turn "weighs more" into "is better".
- boznz 2y ago
  If I ask a cancer specialist "Do I have Cancer?" I really don't want to prompt them with "can you think a bit harder on that"
  - Tostino 2y ago
    I've read research papers on being able to have a dial for how much reasoning the model puts in to your request. Likely how a lot of the proprietary model providers did it as well.
  - golergka 2y ago
    You often have to, though, when you talk to real human doctors. Sometimes you literally have to ask them to get the most basic tests done.
pbhjpbhj 2y ago
Courage is a beer, a kilo of Courage weighs a kilo.
jeremyw 2y ago
And continuing up: o3 was both correct and playful. > In literal, physical terms, a pound of courage would—by definition—tip the scales at one avoirdupois pound (≈ 454 g). A modern UK £1 coin, on the other hand, weighs only 8.75 g. So if you could bottle bravery, the jar marked “1 lb Courage” would outweigh the coin by a factor of about 52 to 1. > (Of course, measured in sheer impact, courage can feel far heavier than anything money can buy!) https://chatgpt.com/share/68057dbc-2ff4-8010-ac30-b4041352007b https://chatgpt.com/share/68057dbc-2ff4-8010-ac30-b404135200...
- Y_Y 2y ago
  Up where? I wouldn't consider that correct.
  - jeremyw 2y ago
    Up in model sophistication. It accurately understands the first segment is metaphorical and not valid in the sense of physical weight. Open the thinking section, if need be.
  - pdabbadabba 2y ago
    Seems exactly correct to me. And certainly as good as the average human. What am I missing? I guess it could just say “it doesn’t make sense to talk about a literal pound courage which is an abstract concept.” But the answer already clearly implies that while striking a tone that is more appropriate to the question.
Havoc 2y ago
A good chunk of humans don’t get pound of feathers va pound of lead right so maybe we’re right on track
bitshiftfaced 2y ago
It may not be AGI, but I don't think it's for that reason. Many humans would make the exact same error by reading too quickly and seeing "pound [of] coin", and I would still consider them of "general intelligence."
- achierius 2y ago
  It's nevertheless interesting how LLMs seem to default to the 'fast thinking' mode of human interaction -- even CoT approaches seem to just be mimicking 'slow thinking' by forcing the LLM to iterate through different options. The failure modes I see are very often the sort of thing I would do if I were unfocused or uninterested in a problem.
int_19h 2y ago
Gemini 2.5 Pro has the following CoT: > Here's my thinking process to answer the question "What weighs more; a pound of courage or a pound coin?": > Analyze the question: The user is asking for a weight comparison between two items: "a pound of courage" and "a pound coin". > Identify the keywords: > "weighs more" - This indicates a comparison of mass or weight. > "a pound of courage" - This is the first item. > "a pound coin" - This is the second item. > Evaluate "a pound of courage": > "Pound" here is used metaphorically. Courage is an abstract concept, an emotion, or a quality. It doesn't have physical mass or weight that can be measured in pounds (or kilograms, grams, etc.). > The phrase "a pound of courage" is figurative language, like "a ton of bricks" (meaning a heavy impact, not literally 2000 lbs of bricks) or "an ounce of prevention" (meaning a small amount of effort). > Therefore, "a pound of courage" has no physical weight. > Evaluate "a pound coin": > A "pound coin" refers to the currency coin used in the United Kingdom, specifically the one-pound (£1) coin. > Coins have physical mass and therefore weight. > I need to determine the actual weight of a UK £1 coin. I know it's not literally one pound (lb) in weight (which would be about 454 grams). That would be an impractically heavy coin. The "pound" in its name refers to its monetary value (£1 sterling). > I should look up the actual weight of a current UK £1 coin. A quick search or recall of common knowledge reveals the current bimetallic 12-sided £1 coin weighs 8.75 grams. Older round £1 coins weighed 9.5 grams. Even the heaviest version is far less than a pound (lb) in weight. > Compare the weights: > Item 1: "A pound of courage" - Weight = 0 (as it's an abstract concept). > Item 2: "A pound coin" - Weight = 8.75 grams (or 9.5 grams for older versions). > Comparing 0 grams and 8.75 grams (or 9.5 grams). > Formulate the answer: > Start by addressing the trick nature of the question, highlighting the difference between abstract concepts and physical objects. > Explain that "courage" is abstract and has no physical weight. The "pound" in "a pound of courage" is metaphorical. > State the actual weight of a UK "pound coin," clarifying that its name refers to its monetary value, not its weight. Mention the weight in grams (8.75g for the current coin). > Conclude clearly that the pound coin has physical weight, while the "pound of courage" does not, making the pound coin heavier. > Consider adding a note about the other meaning of "pound" (lb, the unit of mass/weight) to explicitly contrast it with the coin's name and the metaphorical usage for courage. A pound (lb) is approximately 453.59 grams. This reinforces how much heavier a literal pound (lb) is compared to the coin named "pound". > Refine the answer: Ensure the language is clear, easy to understand, and directly answers the user's question while explaining the underlying concepts (abstract vs. physical, monetary value vs. weight). Make sure to specify the type of pound coin (UK £1). And then gives the following response: > This sounds like a bit of a riddle! Here's the breakdown: > A pound of courage: Courage is an abstract concept, a quality or emotion. It doesn't have physical mass or weight. So, "a pound of courage" doesn't actually weigh anything in the physical sense. The word "pound" here is used metaphorically, perhaps to imply a large amount. > A pound coin: This refers to the British £1 coin. Its name refers to its monetary value (£1 Sterling), not its weight. > The current 12-sided UK £1 coin weighs 8.75 grams. > The older round UK £1 coin weighed 9.5 grams. > Conclusion: > Since courage has no physical weight (0 grams) and a pound coin does have physical weight (8.75 or 9.5 grams), the pound coin weighs more than a pound of courage. > It's worth noting that neither weighs a pound (lb) in the unit of mass sense. A pound (lb) is equal to about 453.59 grams, which is much heavier than the coin.

by Y_Y 2y ago

hannofcart 2y ago

Sonnet 3.7 (Thinking) gave me: :::thinking This question is playing with words and units. A "pound of courage" refers to a metaphorical measurement of the abstract concept of courage, using the imperial weight unit "pound" (which equals 453.59 grams). A "pound coin" refers to the physical currency of the United Kingdom, which is called a "pound" but is a unit of currency, not weight. A physical pound coin weighs about 8-9 grams (specifically, the current 12-sided pound coin weighs 8.75 grams). So comparing them: - A pound of courage would weigh 453.59 grams (if courage had physical weight, which it doesn't since it's an abstract concept) - A pound coin weighs approximately 8.75 grams The trick in this question is that it's comparing: 1. A specific weight of an abstract concept (pound of courage) 2. A physical coin whose name includes the word "pound" but refers to currency, not weight Since the question asks what weighs more, and weight is a physical property, I should point out that courage is abstract and doesn't have physical weight, while a pound coin is a physical object with a measurable weight. ::: # Comparing "A Pound of Courage" vs "A Pound Coin" This is a play on words with different meanings of "pound": - A *pound of courage* refers to a metaphorical pound (weight unit) of an abstract concept - A *pound coin* is a physical British currency coin (which weighs about 8.75 grams) If we're talking about physical weight: - A pound of courage doesn't have physical weight since courage is abstract - A pound coin has a definite weight of approximately 8.75 grams If we interpreted "pound of courage" as literally one pound (453.59 grams) of something, it would weigh significantly more than the coin. This question is clever because it compares a metaphorical measurement with a physical object whose name includes the word "pound" but in a different context.

jpc0 2y ago
Yet for me I will draw analogies the other way, maybe you can prompt the AI into the chain of thought but in my experience that doesn't happen. I would look along the lines of the value of a human being based on traits vs payment which is likely what the original phrase intended. Is paying someone more better than getting a better candidate but paying them less.
- mpalmer 2y ago
  It's a stretch to turn "weighs more" into "is better".
boznz 2y ago
If I ask a cancer specialist "Do I have Cancer?" I really don't want to prompt them with "can you think a bit harder on that"
- Tostino 2y ago
  I've read research papers on being able to have a dial for how much reasoning the model puts in to your request. Likely how a lot of the proprietary model providers did it as well.
- golergka 2y ago
  You often have to, though, when you talk to real human doctors. Sometimes you literally have to ask them to get the most basic tests done.

pbhjpbhj 2y ago

Courage is a beer, a kilo of Courage weighs a kilo.

jeremyw 2y ago

And continuing up: o3 was both correct and playful. > In literal, physical terms, a pound of courage would—by definition—tip the scales at one avoirdupois pound (≈ 454 g). A modern UK £1 coin, on the other hand, weighs only 8.75 g. So if you could bottle bravery, the jar marked “1 lb Courage” would outweigh the coin by a factor of about 52 to 1. > (Of course, measured in sheer impact, courage can feel far heavier than anything money can buy!) https://chatgpt.com/share/68057dbc-2ff4-8010-ac30-b4041352007b https://chatgpt.com/share/68057dbc-2ff4-8010-ac30-b404135200...

Y_Y 2y ago
Up where? I wouldn't consider that correct.
- jeremyw 2y ago
  Up in model sophistication. It accurately understands the first segment is metaphorical and not valid in the sense of physical weight. Open the thinking section, if need be.
- pdabbadabba 2y ago
  Seems exactly correct to me. And certainly as good as the average human. What am I missing? I guess it could just say “it doesn’t make sense to talk about a literal pound courage which is an abstract concept.” But the answer already clearly implies that while striking a tone that is more appropriate to the question.

Havoc 2y ago

A good chunk of humans don’t get pound of feathers va pound of lead right so maybe we’re right on track

bitshiftfaced 2y ago

It may not be AGI, but I don't think it's for that reason. Many humans would make the exact same error by reading too quickly and seeing "pound [of] coin", and I would still consider them of "general intelligence."

achierius 2y ago
It's nevertheless interesting how LLMs seem to default to the 'fast thinking' mode of human interaction -- even CoT approaches seem to just be mimicking 'slow thinking' by forcing the LLM to iterate through different options. The failure modes I see are very often the sort of thing I would do if I were unfocused or uninterested in a problem.

int_19h 2y ago

Gemini 2.5 Pro has the following CoT: > Here's my thinking process to answer the question "What weighs more; a pound of courage or a pound coin?": > Analyze the question: The user is asking for a weight comparison between two items: "a pound of courage" and "a pound coin". > Identify the keywords: > "weighs more" - This indicates a comparison of mass or weight. > "a pound of courage" - This is the first item. > "a pound coin" - This is the second item. > Evaluate "a pound of courage": > "Pound" here is used metaphorically. Courage is an abstract concept, an emotion, or a quality. It doesn't have physical mass or weight that can be measured in pounds (or kilograms, grams, etc.). > The phrase "a pound of courage" is figurative language, like "a ton of bricks" (meaning a heavy impact, not literally 2000 lbs of bricks) or "an ounce of prevention" (meaning a small amount of effort). > Therefore, "a pound of courage" has no physical weight. > Evaluate "a pound coin": > A "pound coin" refers to the currency coin used in the United Kingdom, specifically the one-pound (£1) coin. > Coins have physical mass and therefore weight. > I need to determine the actual weight of a UK £1 coin. I know it's not literally one pound (lb) in weight (which would be about 454 grams). That would be an impractically heavy coin. The "pound" in its name refers to its monetary value (£1 sterling). > I should look up the actual weight of a current UK £1 coin. A quick search or recall of common knowledge reveals the current bimetallic 12-sided £1 coin weighs 8.75 grams. Older round £1 coins weighed 9.5 grams. Even the heaviest version is far less than a pound (lb) in weight. > Compare the weights: > Item 1: "A pound of courage" - Weight = 0 (as it's an abstract concept). > Item 2: "A pound coin" - Weight = 8.75 grams (or 9.5 grams for older versions). > Comparing 0 grams and 8.75 grams (or 9.5 grams). > Formulate the answer: > Start by addressing the trick nature of the question, highlighting the difference between abstract concepts and physical objects. > Explain that "courage" is abstract and has no physical weight. The "pound" in "a pound of courage" is metaphorical. > State the actual weight of a UK "pound coin," clarifying that its name refers to its monetary value, not its weight. Mention the weight in grams (8.75g for the current coin). > Conclude clearly that the pound coin has physical weight, while the "pound of courage" does not, making the pound coin heavier. > Consider adding a note about the other meaning of "pound" (lb, the unit of mass/weight) to explicitly contrast it with the coin's name and the metaphorical usage for courage. A pound (lb) is approximately 453.59 grams. This reinforces how much heavier a literal pound (lb) is compared to the coin named "pound". > Refine the answer: Ensure the language is clear, easy to understand, and directly answers the user's question while explaining the underlying concepts (abstract vs. physical, monetary value vs. weight). Make sure to specify the type of pound coin (UK £1). And then gives the following response: > This sounds like a bit of a riddle! Here's the breakdown: > A pound of courage: Courage is an abstract concept, a quality or emotion. It doesn't have physical mass or weight. So, "a pound of courage" doesn't actually weigh anything in the physical sense. The word "pound" here is used metaphorically, perhaps to imply a large amount. > A pound coin: This refers to the British £1 coin. Its name refers to its monetary value (£1 Sterling), not its weight. > The current 12-sided UK £1 coin weighs 8.75 grams. > The older round UK £1 coin weighed 9.5 grams. > Conclusion: > Since courage has no physical weight (0 grams) and a pound coin does have physical weight (8.75 or 9.5 grams), the pound coin weighs more than a pound of courage. > It's worth noting that neither weighs a pound (lb) in the unit of mass sense. A pound (lb) is equal to about 453.59 grams, which is much heavier than the coin.