7 ms·

Glad for this family, but also: This is interesting to me at the margins, because one of the things I learned when my wife got pregnant the first time was that

by veidr 1y ago

Glad for this family, but also: This is interesting to me at the margins, because one of the things I learned when my wife got pregnant the first time was that the womb is not exactly the warm cradle of nurturing that I had always (without thinking much about it) imagined, but in many ways a blast door or containment vessel to protect the mother (host) from the fetus (roughly, xenomorph) that would otherwise explode like an aggressive parasite (killing them both). So I mean, you probably don't want to have any leaks or weak stitches in your uterus transplant... Keywords: fetal microchimerism, placental barrier, trophoblast invasion

thaumasiotes 1y ago
Your list of keywords is missing "ectopic pregnancy", which seems like exactly the kind of issue your comment contemplates.
gwerbret 1y ago
> So I mean, you probably don't want to have any leaks or weak stitches in your uterus transplant... With this sort of surgery, they wouldn't be cutting into the uterus (womb) itself when extracting it from the donor, but instead will cut around it to remove it, along with some very essential plumbing. The receiving mum will also be on industrial-strength immune suppressants anyway. Where you DO have to worry about leaks and weak stitches is with said plumbing (uterine arteries and veins) -- they have to support virtual firehoses of blood through the duration of pregnancy, and their damage is one reason why a delivery can go south very, very quickly. Obstetric medicine is definitely a high-risk sport, which is why their malpractice insurance rates are head and shoulders above any other medical specialty. But I digress...
dwroberts 1y ago
> fetal microchimerism This is just a fact of reality for any women that have children though. Eg male chromosomes from fetuses being found in women’s brains: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3458919/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3458919/ (I don’t think this is believed to be unusual or an example of ‘containment failure’ of the womb)
- Qem 1y ago
  > Results also suggested lower prevalence (p = 0.03) and concentration (p = 0.06) of male microchimerism in the brains of women with Alzheimer’s disease than the brains of women without neurologic disease. It appears it may even be protective.
  - HPsquared 1y ago
    It's probably the whole "lifestyle package" difference between having children and not. Hard to pin down a single biochemical factor in that.
mcv 1y ago
Absolutely. From what I understand, there's been an evolutionary war for resources between the womb and the placenta, which is a big part of why human pregnancies are so complicated and invasive compared to other mammals (because no other mammal has this anywhere near as extreme as we do). Why us and not other mammals? No idea.
- danielbln 1y ago
  I believe it all comes down to our giant noggin/brain. It's a giant resource tar pit, it's why we're born effectively premature, it's why we take forever to be in any shape of form self sufficient and it's why we would drain the mother of all resources available if she wouldn't regulate that desire to fuel our brain to the max. Turns out, being the most intelligent apex comes with some gestational specialities.
kccqzy 1y ago
> not exactly the warm cradle That would be the gestational sac, no?
hinkley 1y ago
They also check the blood type of the baby and the mother and I believe this is to make sure the mother won’t throw clots, and to take precautions if there’s a mismatch.
tommica 1y ago
This is at the same time the most horrible description of what is going on, and the most hilarious :D "roughly, xenomorph" really got me!
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- ben_w 1y ago
  There is, famously, an alternative reading of the Alien franchise where it's about a non-consensual pregnancy in a society that forbids abortions.
  - CPLX 1y ago
    Pretty sure that’s not some fringe theory. Didn’t the director and visual designers consciously use rape as the model for how to depict the Alien attacks?
anvandare 1y ago
Pregnancy is, it seems, just another (evolutionary) war. https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-between-mother-and-baby https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-bet... Red in tooth and claw at every layer, from the smallest cell to the entire biosphere.
- sitkack 1y ago
  > It’s no accident that many of the same genes active in embryonic development have been implicated in cancer. Pregnancy is a lot more like war than we might care to admit. Amazing article. Another reason that hardshelled laid eggs are such a great invention. The offspring can do its thing from a safe distance.
  - andai 1y ago
    The article suggests the external egg also limits the creature to a small brain.
    - nine_k 1y ago
      Birds, the inheritors of the venerable Dinosaur brand, managed to both produce very large eggs (e.g. ostriches), and impressively capable brains, rivaling those of larger mammalians (e.g. parrots, corvids), interestingly, without the use of very large eggs.
      - c22 1y ago
        Okay, crows are impressive. But I'm not going to let one do my taxes.
        geenkeuse 1y ago
        [dead]
        throw-qqqqq 1y ago
        The crow wouldn’t let you build its nest either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ygg2 1y ago
> containment vessel to protect the mother (host) from the fetus (roughly, xenomorph) that would otherwise explode like an aggressive parasite (killing them both). You can also flip the perspective the fetus is trying to survive in a hostile environment designed to strangle it. If it isn't clawing for every ounce of food and air it will become a miscarriage. It must interface with a system built for millenia designed to kill anything that doesn't have its code. In truth, it is the equilibrium that evolution has achieved. Placenta must account for the most vicious fetus, and fetus must account for most vicious placenta.
- treve 1y ago
  I think in this metaphor the placenta is actually on the fetus' side and also had the baby's DNA.
  - Ygg2 1y ago
    Did you read the article? It's not. It's somewhat fighting against it. Plus immune system would see baby's DNA as corrupted, since half of it is just wrong.
    - thaumasiotes 1y ago
      > Plus immune system would see baby's DNA as corrupted The immune system can't see DNA at all. It works by other methods.
      - Ygg2 1y ago
        True but it can detect DNA isn't the same by comparing expressed proteins.
- diggan 1y ago
  Not to mention when multiple fetuses are involved. It's a miracle there are as many twins+ as there are.

by veidr 1y ago

thaumasiotes 1y ago

Your list of keywords is missing "ectopic pregnancy", which seems like exactly the kind of issue your comment contemplates.

gwerbret 1y ago

> So I mean, you probably don't want to have any leaks or weak stitches in your uterus transplant... With this sort of surgery, they wouldn't be cutting into the uterus (womb) itself when extracting it from the donor, but instead will cut around it to remove it, along with some very essential plumbing. The receiving mum will also be on industrial-strength immune suppressants anyway. Where you DO have to worry about leaks and weak stitches is with said plumbing (uterine arteries and veins) -- they have to support virtual firehoses of blood through the duration of pregnancy, and their damage is one reason why a delivery can go south very, very quickly. Obstetric medicine is definitely a high-risk sport, which is why their malpractice insurance rates are head and shoulders above any other medical specialty. But I digress...

dwroberts 1y ago

> fetal microchimerism This is just a fact of reality for any women that have children though. Eg male chromosomes from fetuses being found in women’s brains: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3458919/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3458919/ (I don’t think this is believed to be unusual or an example of ‘containment failure’ of the womb)

Qem 1y ago
> Results also suggested lower prevalence (p = 0.03) and concentration (p = 0.06) of male microchimerism in the brains of women with Alzheimer’s disease than the brains of women without neurologic disease. It appears it may even be protective.
- HPsquared 1y ago
  It's probably the whole "lifestyle package" difference between having children and not. Hard to pin down a single biochemical factor in that.

mcv 1y ago

Absolutely. From what I understand, there's been an evolutionary war for resources between the womb and the placenta, which is a big part of why human pregnancies are so complicated and invasive compared to other mammals (because no other mammal has this anywhere near as extreme as we do). Why us and not other mammals? No idea.

danielbln 1y ago
I believe it all comes down to our giant noggin/brain. It's a giant resource tar pit, it's why we're born effectively premature, it's why we take forever to be in any shape of form self sufficient and it's why we would drain the mother of all resources available if she wouldn't regulate that desire to fuel our brain to the max. Turns out, being the most intelligent apex comes with some gestational specialities.

kccqzy 1y ago

> not exactly the warm cradle That would be the gestational sac, no?

hinkley 1y ago

They also check the blood type of the baby and the mother and I believe this is to make sure the mother won’t throw clots, and to take precautions if there’s a mismatch.

tommica 1y ago

This is at the same time the most horrible description of what is going on, and the most hilarious :D "roughly, xenomorph" really got me!

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
ben_w 1y ago
There is, famously, an alternative reading of the Alien franchise where it's about a non-consensual pregnancy in a society that forbids abortions.
- CPLX 1y ago
  Pretty sure that’s not some fringe theory. Didn’t the director and visual designers consciously use rape as the model for how to depict the Alien attacks?

anvandare 1y ago

Pregnancy is, it seems, just another (evolutionary) war. https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-between-mother-and-baby https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-bet... Red in tooth and claw at every layer, from the smallest cell to the entire biosphere.

sitkack 1y ago
> It’s no accident that many of the same genes active in embryonic development have been implicated in cancer. Pregnancy is a lot more like war than we might care to admit. Amazing article. Another reason that hardshelled laid eggs are such a great invention. The offspring can do its thing from a safe distance.
- andai 1y ago
  The article suggests the external egg also limits the creature to a small brain.
  - nine_k 1y ago
    Birds, the inheritors of the venerable Dinosaur brand, managed to both produce very large eggs (e.g. ostriches), and impressively capable brains, rivaling those of larger mammalians (e.g. parrots, corvids), interestingly, without the use of very large eggs.
    - c22 1y ago
      Okay, crows are impressive. But I'm not going to let one do my taxes.
      - geenkeuse 1y ago
        [dead]
      - throw-qqqqq 1y ago
        The crow wouldn’t let you build its nest either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ygg2 1y ago

> containment vessel to protect the mother (host) from the fetus (roughly, xenomorph) that would otherwise explode like an aggressive parasite (killing them both). You can also flip the perspective the fetus is trying to survive in a hostile environment designed to strangle it. If it isn't clawing for every ounce of food and air it will become a miscarriage. It must interface with a system built for millenia designed to kill anything that doesn't have its code. In truth, it is the equilibrium that evolution has achieved. Placenta must account for the most vicious fetus, and fetus must account for most vicious placenta.

treve 1y ago
I think in this metaphor the placenta is actually on the fetus' side and also had the baby's DNA.
- Ygg2 1y ago
  Did you read the article? It's not. It's somewhat fighting against it. Plus immune system would see baby's DNA as corrupted, since half of it is just wrong.
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    > Plus immune system would see baby's DNA as corrupted The immune system can't see DNA at all. It works by other methods.
    - Ygg2 1y ago
      True but it can detect DNA isn't the same by comparing expressed proteins.
diggan 1y ago
Not to mention when multiple fetuses are involved. It's a miracle there are as many twins+ as there are.