5 ms·

I find the analysis interesting in terms of a hobby project, but I'd be careful extrapolating too much out of this. 680k is quite the sample size, but my issue

I find the analysis interesting in terms of a hobby project, but I'd be careful extrapolating too much out of this. 680k is quite the sample size, but my issue lies within the myopic selection of one instrument and the issues that arise from the platform of Ultimate Guitar. 1. I am curious, how many of the 680k songs are unique? It is rather uncommon for massively successful songs to only have one version of tabs out in the wild, so I am curious how many songs individual songs were counted multiple times. 2. This analysis only looks at guitar tabs or instrumentations there were transcribed for guitar. Chords can be made with more than just one instrument, thus that missing 7th note could actually be played by another instrument not included in the tabs. 3. As music progressed from the pre-jazz era to modern times, it became more common for people to play an instrument, like piano or guitar, while singing at the same time. Obviously there are exceptions to everything, but often times guitar pieces are simplified if the guitarist is also singing for practical reasons. 4. Music has also become more accessible as time progressed. It would be hard for an average person to learn the organ or hurdy-gurdy without access to one. It's much easier to acquire and learn piano when it can be a 4 inch thick plastic keyboard on a stand. 5. People tend to have a warped concept of the history of music. Pachelbel's Canon in D is by no means a complex song and has stood the test of time. Music through out time has also served different purposes. Hell, go back to Ancient Greece, Gregorian chants, and Medieval music. Those various time periods were not generally fully of complexity either. I would argue such times were generally less complex than modern music.

alexjplant 2y ago
> People tend to have a warped concept of the history of music. Pachelbel's Canon in D is by no means a complex song and has stood the test of time. Music through out time has also served different purposes. Hell, go back to Ancient Greece, Gregorian chants, and Medieval music. Those various time periods were not generally fully of complexity either. I would argue such times were generally less complex than modern music. True facts. The fifties and sixties were replete with simple, disposable pop music. "Yummy Yummy Yummy" topped the charts in the late 60s and has, what, three chords in it? What about "Sugar, Sugar" or the Monkees? Staff songwriters and session cats cranked this stuff out by the ton back in the day but people still love to take potshots at modern pop music for being inferior to the oldies in this regard.
- a4isms 2y ago
  The key observation for me is Sturgeon's Revelation: "90% of everything is crud." My most impressionable years for music were the 70s and 80s. I remember fantastic music from that time... But the fact is, most of what we hear today from that era has been curated for us. We hear the 10% of the 70s and 80s hits that weren't crud. Or maybe even the 1% that was great. If we actually listen to the top twenty-five singles from any month in those two decades, 90% of them would be crud. I think most people comparing the present to the past are comparing everything today to the 10% of yesterday that wasn't crud.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    We do an awful lot nowadays, though. Hmm, actually, I guess it is a straightforward equation I just don’t have my pencil or envelope handy. Imagine that we are interacting with all the accumulated good stuff, plus the modern good stuff, as well as the old good stuff (the old crud is forgotten). If our productivity is growing exponentially, is the proportion of crud increasing over time?
- pfisherman 2y ago
  Complexity is not just variation in chord progression, key, or melody. Dark Side of the Moon is basically the same chord progression repeated over and over; but with different rhythm, tempo, arrangement for each song. The variation within the scope of the repetition and call backs to various melodic and rhythmic motifs at various points throughout is part of what makes the album such an epic and thematically cohesive listening experience.
dehrmann 2y ago
> Pachelbel's Canon in D is by no means a complex song and has stood the test of time It was actually mostly forgotten until the 1960's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachelbel%27s_Canon#Rediscovery_and_rise_to_fame https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachelbel%27s_Canon#Rediscover... Can anyone find a version without Paillard's changes? Knowing the history, I suspect they have more to do with the song's popularity than the original composition.
- hirvi74 2y ago
  > It was actually mostly forgotten until the 1960's. Correct, much like Bach until Mendelssohn. My point was that, well both, are still around. Plenty more music was lost to the sands of time. Which one is it? Beethoven's 5th? I think it's his 5th that has been played at least once a month since it was first performed. Now, that is a wild record.
- toolslive 2y ago
  Oasis anyone?
iambateman 2y ago
I think Ultimate Guitar has a lot to do with this. Sure, G is probably the most popular chord, but there are a _lot_ of chord sheets that are wrong or incomplete. If someone were to play many of these songs as charted on UG it would sound unrecognizable. Kind of invalidates the analysis IMHO
- unnamed76ri 2y ago
  And how many charts call for a capo to be used so the performer is using key of G chord shapes but actually playing a different key entirely?
otabdeveloper4 2y ago
> Music has also become more accessible as time progressed. Hell no. Before recorded music literally everyone was a musician in one way or another. Music was an activity you did while bored. (Today music is not an activity, it's a product to consume.) They had simple woodwinds and percussive instruments. People weren't playing the church organ while waiting for the cows to come home.
- Slow_Hand 2y ago
  Literally everyone? Have you got a source for that claim? I don’t disagree that music performance was a pastime for many people before recorded music, but let’s be real here.
  - otabdeveloper4 2y ago
    There was no recorded or productionized music back then. And yet people liked music as much as we do now. So the only way to enjoy music was to do it yourself. Singing and playing an instrument was just a basic life skill that everyone had back then. (Say, like driving a car or using a computer is today. Not everyone is a professional driver or computer programmer, but not being able to use a computer at all today would mean you failed at life.)
    - metalman 2y ago
      little kids,(feeling safe and secure) will try and grab your guitar out of your hands,they KNOW they can do this, and just go for it, guitars bigger than they are, or watch a little, out somewhere, smitten by a street mucician, dont want to leave..,..yanked away....scolded... in Halifax, NS, there was a ukelele program, and ALL children partisipated and second page into a search, it comes up https://www.ukuleleintheclassroom.org/ https://www.ukuleleintheclassroom.org/
    - kube-system 2y ago
      > There was no recorded or productionized music back then. And yet people liked music as much as we do now. So the only way to enjoy music was to do it yourself. Or listen to live music in your community

alexjplant 2y ago

> People tend to have a warped concept of the history of music. Pachelbel's Canon in D is by no means a complex song and has stood the test of time. Music through out time has also served different purposes. Hell, go back to Ancient Greece, Gregorian chants, and Medieval music. Those various time periods were not generally fully of complexity either. I would argue such times were generally less complex than modern music. True facts. The fifties and sixties were replete with simple, disposable pop music. "Yummy Yummy Yummy" topped the charts in the late 60s and has, what, three chords in it? What about "Sugar, Sugar" or the Monkees? Staff songwriters and session cats cranked this stuff out by the ton back in the day but people still love to take potshots at modern pop music for being inferior to the oldies in this regard.

a4isms 2y ago
The key observation for me is Sturgeon's Revelation: "90% of everything is crud." My most impressionable years for music were the 70s and 80s. I remember fantastic music from that time... But the fact is, most of what we hear today from that era has been curated for us. We hear the 10% of the 70s and 80s hits that weren't crud. Or maybe even the 1% that was great. If we actually listen to the top twenty-five singles from any month in those two decades, 90% of them would be crud. I think most people comparing the present to the past are comparing everything today to the 10% of yesterday that wasn't crud.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  We do an awful lot nowadays, though. Hmm, actually, I guess it is a straightforward equation I just don’t have my pencil or envelope handy. Imagine that we are interacting with all the accumulated good stuff, plus the modern good stuff, as well as the old good stuff (the old crud is forgotten). If our productivity is growing exponentially, is the proportion of crud increasing over time?
pfisherman 2y ago
Complexity is not just variation in chord progression, key, or melody. Dark Side of the Moon is basically the same chord progression repeated over and over; but with different rhythm, tempo, arrangement for each song. The variation within the scope of the repetition and call backs to various melodic and rhythmic motifs at various points throughout is part of what makes the album such an epic and thematically cohesive listening experience.

dehrmann 2y ago

> Pachelbel's Canon in D is by no means a complex song and has stood the test of time It was actually mostly forgotten until the 1960's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachelbel%27s_Canon#Rediscovery_and_rise_to_fame https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachelbel%27s_Canon#Rediscover... Can anyone find a version without Paillard's changes? Knowing the history, I suspect they have more to do with the song's popularity than the original composition.

hirvi74 2y ago
> It was actually mostly forgotten until the 1960's. Correct, much like Bach until Mendelssohn. My point was that, well both, are still around. Plenty more music was lost to the sands of time. Which one is it? Beethoven's 5th? I think it's his 5th that has been played at least once a month since it was first performed. Now, that is a wild record.
toolslive 2y ago
Oasis anyone?

iambateman 2y ago

I think Ultimate Guitar has a lot to do with this. Sure, G is probably the most popular chord, but there are a _lot_ of chord sheets that are wrong or incomplete. If someone were to play many of these songs as charted on UG it would sound unrecognizable. Kind of invalidates the analysis IMHO

unnamed76ri 2y ago
And how many charts call for a capo to be used so the performer is using key of G chord shapes but actually playing a different key entirely?

otabdeveloper4 2y ago

> Music has also become more accessible as time progressed. Hell no. Before recorded music literally everyone was a musician in one way or another. Music was an activity you did while bored. (Today music is not an activity, it's a product to consume.) They had simple woodwinds and percussive instruments. People weren't playing the church organ while waiting for the cows to come home.

Slow_Hand 2y ago
Literally everyone? Have you got a source for that claim? I don’t disagree that music performance was a pastime for many people before recorded music, but let’s be real here.
- otabdeveloper4 2y ago
  There was no recorded or productionized music back then. And yet people liked music as much as we do now. So the only way to enjoy music was to do it yourself. Singing and playing an instrument was just a basic life skill that everyone had back then. (Say, like driving a car or using a computer is today. Not everyone is a professional driver or computer programmer, but not being able to use a computer at all today would mean you failed at life.)
  - metalman 2y ago
    little kids,(feeling safe and secure) will try and grab your guitar out of your hands,they KNOW they can do this, and just go for it, guitars bigger than they are, or watch a little, out somewhere, smitten by a street mucician, dont want to leave..,..yanked away....scolded... in Halifax, NS, there was a ukelele program, and ALL children partisipated and second page into a search, it comes up https://www.ukuleleintheclassroom.org/ https://www.ukuleleintheclassroom.org/
  - kube-system 2y ago
    > There was no recorded or productionized music back then. And yet people liked music as much as we do now. So the only way to enjoy music was to do it yourself. Or listen to live music in your community