5 ms·

This makes zero sense. Are you considering the machine time or just loading? Also, machines wash 1000 times better than hand ever could, uses less water, and do

This makes zero sense. Are you considering the machine time or just loading? Also, machines wash 1000 times better than hand ever could, uses less water, and doesn’t dry out your hands.

nonethewiser 2y ago
It makes perfect sense. It takes about 20 seconds to wash 1 dish.
- ac29 2y ago
  I'm usually getting ~40 dishes and ~40 utensils into the dishwasher per load, which at 20 seconds each is like half an hour. I can load the dishwasher a lot quicker than that.
  - nonethewiser 2y ago
    You also need to count the time for it to wash them and unload them. Washing is async which means its less active work, but it’s definitely includes in how long it takes. The more dirty dishes you have the better the dishwasher becomes in terms of active work but in no scenario is it actually faster.
    - onli 2y ago
      You do not need to count that time. There are very few situations where the time which is not active work time matters. Dishwasher uses up less of your time (and saves money, energy, water). Note the origin statement: It's just so much faster to do the washing by hand. It's completely wrong, but makes clear what kind of time is to be measured here.
    - albedoa 2y ago
      > You also need to count the time for it to wash them You do not. We are comparing the time it takes for a man to wash a dish versus the time it takes for that man to put that dish in the dishwasher, not versus the time it takes for a machine to wash that dish.
- tombert 2y ago
  If you're only using one dish, then sure it's probably better to wash by hand. No one I know has ever suggested running a dishwasher for one dish. Dishwashers can handle a lot of dishes and loading them takes like five minutes. Yes, it might take between 2 and 3 hours to finish washing, but it's asynchronous, you're not involved with the process. I usually load and start the dishwasher right before I go to bed. This is not even to mention the fact that many dishwashers can sanitize dishes better than you can by hand since they can get very hot and maintain that heat, and the fact that they use considerably less water.
pazimzadeh 2y ago
> machines wash 1000 times better than hand ever could No way. Not if you're washing with a scrub sponge and scraping the corners of everything. The argument for the dishwasher is that you're not using an old sponge. If your sponge is not nasty, washing by hand should be as good or better.
- Night_Thastus 2y ago
  Dishwashers, with rare exception, are much better at washing dishes than people are. They can use water temperatures that would burn skin, pressures that would bruise, and can keep going at it for HOURS without getting tired. People are lazy. They only look for dirty spots and go for those. They intentionally or intentionally avoid cleaning some areas. Dishwashers don't care what 'looks' dirty - they just keep washing. Even if you think it's clean by hand, chances are there's far more residual residue and bacteria you can't see that a dishwasher wouldn't have any trouble with. 99% of the problem with dishwashers are that people use them wrong: * They don't clean the filter and spray arms regularly * They use the shitty pods instead of powder, which is the most effective since it can have bleach * They don't put some detergent in the pre-wash * They have a unit that doesn't pre-heat the water and need to just run the faucet for a bit to get the water hot * They don't use a rinse aid If you can avoid those 5 mistakes, a dishwasher will always way out-perform hand-washing. Even dirt cheap basic units you see in low end apartments will do an amazing job if actually used correctly.
  - pazimzadeh 2y ago
    You're missing the point. I'm not talking about people lazily washing their dishes by hand. I'm talking about focused hand-washing of dishes with many corners, vs. sticking them in the dish-washer. Like the article mentioned, to get the best result you need to have your dirty dishes line up with where the water is coming out. So if you need to wash something on multiple sides (including top), handwashing will be better. Hot water is not what cleans your dishes, it's the pressure from the water washing things out (helped by soap). Heat just softens the gunk and oil. Plus you can wear gloves and/or let dishes soak in hot water so that's not even a factor. By the way, many microbes can survive heat (in spore form), even boiling hot water. Nothing can survive being washed away by soap though. Well, they could survive, but they won't be on your dish. As a microbiologist I'm aware that what looks clean can have leftover residue. How are you measuring cleanliness out of a dishwasher? I'm guessing by eye, the same way you're measuring hand-washed dish cleanliness. The way you talk about dishwashers is like you think they're autoclaves, which can actually break spores down using a high heat only achievable in a high-pressure tank (higher than boiling temperature, around 120 celsius). Your dishwasher is only getting about 50 to 60 degrees celsius. So no, a dishwasher will not always out-perform hand-washing. And if you're using a new sponge, I bet you the result is comparable or better if your hand-washing technique doesn't suck and you should get about the same result with cold water if you use enough soap.

This makes zero sense. Are you considering the machine time or just loading? Also, machines wash 1000 times better than hand ever could, uses less water, and doesn’t dry out your hands.

nonethewiser 2y ago

It makes perfect sense. It takes about 20 seconds to wash 1 dish.

ac29 2y ago
I'm usually getting ~40 dishes and ~40 utensils into the dishwasher per load, which at 20 seconds each is like half an hour. I can load the dishwasher a lot quicker than that.
- nonethewiser 2y ago
  You also need to count the time for it to wash them and unload them. Washing is async which means its less active work, but it’s definitely includes in how long it takes. The more dirty dishes you have the better the dishwasher becomes in terms of active work but in no scenario is it actually faster.
  - onli 2y ago
    You do not need to count that time. There are very few situations where the time which is not active work time matters. Dishwasher uses up less of your time (and saves money, energy, water). Note the origin statement: It's just so much faster to do the washing by hand. It's completely wrong, but makes clear what kind of time is to be measured here.
  - albedoa 2y ago
    > You also need to count the time for it to wash them You do not. We are comparing the time it takes for a man to wash a dish versus the time it takes for that man to put that dish in the dishwasher, not versus the time it takes for a machine to wash that dish.
tombert 2y ago
If you're only using one dish, then sure it's probably better to wash by hand. No one I know has ever suggested running a dishwasher for one dish. Dishwashers can handle a lot of dishes and loading them takes like five minutes. Yes, it might take between 2 and 3 hours to finish washing, but it's asynchronous, you're not involved with the process. I usually load and start the dishwasher right before I go to bed. This is not even to mention the fact that many dishwashers can sanitize dishes better than you can by hand since they can get very hot and maintain that heat, and the fact that they use considerably less water.

pazimzadeh 2y ago

> machines wash 1000 times better than hand ever could No way. Not if you're washing with a scrub sponge and scraping the corners of everything. The argument for the dishwasher is that you're not using an old sponge. If your sponge is not nasty, washing by hand should be as good or better.

Night_Thastus 2y ago
Dishwashers, with rare exception, are much better at washing dishes than people are. They can use water temperatures that would burn skin, pressures that would bruise, and can keep going at it for HOURS without getting tired. People are lazy. They only look for dirty spots and go for those. They intentionally or intentionally avoid cleaning some areas. Dishwashers don't care what 'looks' dirty - they just keep washing. Even if you think it's clean by hand, chances are there's far more residual residue and bacteria you can't see that a dishwasher wouldn't have any trouble with. 99% of the problem with dishwashers are that people use them wrong: * They don't clean the filter and spray arms regularly * They use the shitty pods instead of powder, which is the most effective since it can have bleach * They don't put some detergent in the pre-wash * They have a unit that doesn't pre-heat the water and need to just run the faucet for a bit to get the water hot * They don't use a rinse aid If you can avoid those 5 mistakes, a dishwasher will always way out-perform hand-washing. Even dirt cheap basic units you see in low end apartments will do an amazing job if actually used correctly.
- pazimzadeh 2y ago
  You're missing the point. I'm not talking about people lazily washing their dishes by hand. I'm talking about focused hand-washing of dishes with many corners, vs. sticking them in the dish-washer. Like the article mentioned, to get the best result you need to have your dirty dishes line up with where the water is coming out. So if you need to wash something on multiple sides (including top), handwashing will be better. Hot water is not what cleans your dishes, it's the pressure from the water washing things out (helped by soap). Heat just softens the gunk and oil. Plus you can wear gloves and/or let dishes soak in hot water so that's not even a factor. By the way, many microbes can survive heat (in spore form), even boiling hot water. Nothing can survive being washed away by soap though. Well, they could survive, but they won't be on your dish. As a microbiologist I'm aware that what looks clean can have leftover residue. How are you measuring cleanliness out of a dishwasher? I'm guessing by eye, the same way you're measuring hand-washed dish cleanliness. The way you talk about dishwashers is like you think they're autoclaves, which can actually break spores down using a high heat only achievable in a high-pressure tank (higher than boiling temperature, around 120 celsius). Your dishwasher is only getting about 50 to 60 degrees celsius. So no, a dishwasher will not always out-perform hand-washing. And if you're using a new sponge, I bet you the result is comparable or better if your hand-washing technique doesn't suck and you should get about the same result with cold water if you use enough soap.