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U.S.-born man from Georgia held for ICE under Florida's new anti-immigration law
- m-hodges 2y ago> Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez, a 20-year-old U.S. citizen
- esalman 2y agoThe names are so effing predictable at this point.
- atoav 2y agoIf the government can disappear people without cause all other rights you believe you have are moot.
- scj 2y agoSame if the King can say "Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?" then pardon the soldiers that do.
- cultofmetatron 2y agoI Wouldnt be surprise if this story ends up getting flagged for being "too political." as a minority who was born in this country, I've had plenty of people tell me not to worry because I'm a citizen. These kinds of things are going to happen more and more because there is a bureaucracy being created to enable this. I've had way too many conversations when he first started talking about this stuff. He was 1. "only going after violent criminals" 2. "only going after criminals" 3. "anyone here 'illegally' is. criminal" Now we have a hot mic about where he talks about sending out "home growns" to Auschwitz 2.0 down in el salvador. I'll say it bluntly... I'm scared. I'm personally waiting to get my passport renewed and then I'm bouncing out of here. The writing is on the wall. Its not safe here in America.
- anonymars 2y ago"First they came for the..." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ajross 2y agoFlagged within minutes of making the front page, in fact.
- pvg 2y agoIt's not for 'too political', it's that similar stories have recently had significant discussions.
- ceejayoz 2y agoThis is the first I've seen in the current dragnet that involved a US citizen.
- pvg 2y agoIt has happened before but also, each case has something that makes it different so HN's dupesense can't practically work on that basis.
- m-hodges 2y ago2017: U.S. Citizen Held By ICE For 3 Years¹ 2019: US-Born Marine Veteran Detained By ICE Was Carrying His US Passport When He Was Arrested² ¹ https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038... ² https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-marine-ice-detained-passport https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-ma...
- runako 2y ago> the court lacked jurisdiction over Lopez-Gomez’s release because U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had formally asked the jail to hold him If ICE trumps state courts on matters where it clearly lacks jurisdiction, ICE needs to be shut down entirely.
- wolfi1 2y agoso habeas corpus just died in the US
- runako 2y agoIt died when ICE started snatching people and deporting them without trial. (The government has the obligation to put each person before a court to at minimum prove they are not about to deport a US citizen.) Incidentally, the position of the current administration is that they should have been able to, last night, send him to serve an indefinite sentence in an El Salvadoran torture prison without ever seeing a judge.
- kowabungalow 2y agoI'm no state judge, but I think the states do have jurisdiction on kidnappings where the crime doesn't cross state lines.
- HenryBemis 2y agoDon't throw away the baby with the bathwater (I live in the EU but hold on a minute...) _this_ part doesn't work. Not "nothing works anymore". Perhaps there is a special court/system/subsystem that has authority for these cases. Just like Military has its own courts, and they don't try civilians, perhaps for such cases there is a "migration court" (or something-something...) Unless there isn't in which case, damn those ICE folks are cold!!
- runako 2y agoNo, ICE is Immigration and Customs Enforcement. They do not have any authority at all over US citizens who are not engaged in crossing an international border. Additionally, the current position of the US government is that they should have been able to put this person it a torture prison in El Salvador without him ever seeing a judge.
- sergiotapia 2y agoI wonder why ICE asked to hold him. The article does not mention.
- sundaeofshock 2y agoWhy does it matter? He is a US citizen and ICE should be told to fuck right off.
- ahdanggit 2y agoI am also wondering the same thing, how can they even hold him? He was charged with a DUI (not even an ICE matter) other than that his crime seems to be that he doesn't speak English and lived in Mexico most of his life? Also... shouldn't you be assumed to be a citizen (e.g. innocent) unless proven otherwise? Have we turned in to Nazi Germany (Papers please...) Did they pass an executive order voiding birth right citizenship and I missed it? I know they were trying to...
- runako 2y agoIt does not matter. ICE does not have any jurisdiction at all over US citizens who are not engaged in crossing international borders. Let me say that again another way: ICE cannot simply do whatever it wants to whoever it wants. This is akin to giving the Department of Education comprehensive arrest powers related to pickleball games anywhere in the country.
- HenryBemis 2y agoMaybe someone should pass a law that limits ICE's range to "not more than 5km/miles from the nearest external border". In which case they operate as border guard and not as "let's go downtown and get us some Pakis/Venezuelans/Italians/etc." (but who's gonna pass this law?)
- runako 2y agoYes, but also many of our major cities are 5km from an external border (coastal cities). ICE needs to be reined in, full stop.
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- legitster 2y ago> The law makes it a misdemeanor for undocumented immigrants over age 18 to “knowingly” enter Florida “after entering the United States by eluding or avoiding examination or inspection by immigration officers.” A good reminder that over 60% of "undocumented immigrants" in the US are here because they overstayed Visas (more likely their Visa extensions were denied). NOT because they entered the country illegally. However, the enforcement of these laws is following the "guilty until proven innocent" logic. Arrest people who look hispanic and deny them basic legal rights until they prove their citizenship. The fact that citizens are caught up in this should not be a surprise since we are witnessing the fall of due process.
- willcipriano 2y agoThat 60% figure would have to depend on a unknown denominator so I dont understand how it would be said so authoritatively. 60% of known undocumented immigrants is the best it could be.
- koolba 2y ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 2y ago> Are you expecting a perfect system that would never even accost an innocent man? I'd, at the very least, expect the system to rapidly right the clear wrong when confronted with strong evidence. > If you don’t want to be mistaken for an illegal alien, how about not riding around with them? My First Amendment rights include the right to associate with non-citizens. Am I supposed to demand my friends' citizenship paperwork before going out to dinner? Come the fuck on. > And once the authorities were presented with his documents he was released. No, he wasn't. "However, the state prosecutor insisted the court lacked jurisdiction over Lopez-Gomez’s release because U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had formally asked the jail to hold him. “This court does not have any jurisdiction other than what I’ve already done,” [Judge] Riggans said."
- koolba 2y ago
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- sgt 2y agoI had never heard of it, but it's quite a few speakers at half a million people. Common in the Mexican state of Chiapas. Fascinating.
- ceejayoz 2y agoAmerican citizens, as a general rule, have every right to a) speak a different language and b) leave the country if they feel like it.
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- CurtHagenlocher 2y agoI predict they'll argue that because he lived in Mexico from ages 1 to 16 that he effectively relinquished citizenship. Which is BS, of course, but I'm reminded of the Sartre quote "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert."
- palmotea 2y ago> I predict they'll argue that because he lived in Mexico from ages 1 to 16 that he effectively relinquished citizenship. Which is BS, of course... Yeah. IIRC, that just means he can't pass his citizenship down to his foreign born children: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...: > The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or its territories for five years before the child’s birth. At least two of these years must be after age 14.
- runako 2y agoHoly wow are those rules complex. What immediately drops out of them is that kids of diplomats must return physically to the US for 5 years to be able to pass on their citizenship to their progeny.
- ajross 2y agoThese are good rules, not bad. The point of having birthright citizenship is that we don't rely on a fuzzy, nationalist, often-slight-racist notion of "Americanness" or "American Blood" to define our citizenry. All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States, easy peasy. But then you need to close the loopholes around people who clearly haven't renounced citizenship and don't want to but still find themselves pregnant in foreign countries such that they don't need to make emergency trips back to the homeland. And that gets a little complicated because you need to distinguish them from actual expatriots in a fair way.
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- josefritzishere 2y agoIncreasingly this seems purely a racist action. I'm just not seeing Canadians or Norweigans getting thrown in foreign gulags.
- betaby 2y agoCanadians are detained on US soil for now. Not sure if that helps.
- quantified 2y agoCanadian != Caucasian. Norwegians are far more homogeneous.
- fzeroracer 2y agoNormally I try to not comment on the status of stories being flagged, but this feels particularly egregious. We have a US citizen being detained and held by ICE despite giving evidence of their citizenship. This is fully unacceptable.
- browningstreet 2y agoAgreed. I opened this in a tab and came back to find it flagged. This is relevant to all of us in the US.
- sundaeofshock 2y agoI think it’s time that we had full transparency here. I want to see who upvoted or flags submissions.
- tombert 2y agoMy wife got her citizenship just a week ago. I was (and am) very happy about this. But now I'm a little concerned this was all for nothing. If ICE is going to start deporting US citizens, then I really can't really feel safe. Ever. I am so god damn tired of this.
- int_19h 2y agoAll naturalized citizens are in the crosshairs since naturalization can in fact be reverted. It's supposed to be a very difficult process, but with this admin, we already know that their modus operandi will be to throw the book at you and get you whisked away to some detention center and promptly deported, and then good luck fighting it in courts (which they will also stonewall and ultimately ignore anyway). Worse yet, Trump and his clique have already openly talked about denaturalization and threatened to apply it to political opponents, so it's not idle speculation either.
- tombert 2y agoYeah, we've decided that we're not leaving the country if/until Trump is out of office. I don't need to rock the boat with this shit.
- Chinjut 2y ago[flagged]
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- HaZeust 2y agoI implore everyone to listen to Obama's 2004 DNC speech [1], endorsing John Kerry. Specifically, for 12:00 and beyond: "For alongside our famous individualism, there's another ingredient in the American Saga: A belief that we're all connected as one people [...] If there's an Arab-American family being rounded up, without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens MY civil liberties [too]. It is that fundamental belief. I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper, that makes this country work." 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWynt87PaJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWynt87PaJ0
- jfengel 2y agoYou're talking to a nation that was so traumatized by Obama that it went as far in the opposite direction as it possibly could. There was a time when such ideals mattered. That ended about a decade ago. Today we do not believe that we are connected as a people, and that my civil liberties must be protected at all costs (so long as they're your costs).
- breadwinner 2y ago> so traumatized by Obama What exactly did Obama do to traumatize you? Be not white?
- esalman 2y agoTrue. Obama delivered after the depression caused by Iraq war and housing crash, if anything.
- trilbyglens 2y agoObama kicked the failing can of neoliberalism down the road. He could have very easily bailed out the American people directly but chose not to do that and as such I feel like he alienated liberal Americans as much as he did conservative ones.
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- esalman 2y agoNever thought I'd see the ugly third world side of America where authorities abuse their power with complete immunity. What happened to the checks and balances?
- Scipio_Afri 2y agoWhy is this flagged
- AlecSchueler 2y agoIt talks about contemporary American politics.