4 ms·

I’m sorry but you can’t convince me that people in this country illegally shouldn’t be deported back to their country of origin. Particularly when they are aff

by _mlbt 1y ago

I’m sorry but you can’t convince me that people in this country illegally shouldn’t be deported back to their country of origin. Particularly when they are affiliated with violent gangs like MS-13 and commit acts of domestic violence that cause their wife to get a restraining order against them. I can empathize with why people would want to immigrate to this country, but they need to do so legally.

ProjectArcturis 1y ago
I'm not trying to convince you that illegal immigrants shouldn't be deported. What I would like to convince you is that any time the government takes action against a person, the government should have to prove their case in open court, and the person should have a fair chance to defend themselves. Is this particular person MS-13? Did he have a legal right to be here? You don't know. None of us do, not for sure. 10 years ago, the idea that the government could sweep people off the streets and deliver them to a foreign prison with no trial or recourse would have been seen as absurd by every part of the political spectrum.
- _mlbt 1y ago
  I think it's also absurd that the media is painting this guy as some innocent victim. He is an MS-13 gang member. He beat his wife, to the point that she filed a restraining order against him. There is evidence that he was engaging in human trafficking. Citizens have rights to trial. Those who have entered the country illegally do not have the same legal rights that citizens do.
  - MiguelX413 1y ago
    They should have properly convicted him in court then.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    That's a terrible idea. Everyone needs trials or the government can make up a quick lie about anyone (or make a mistake about anyone) and then their rights disappear. And in general, bad people still deserve trials. There is no crime you can point to someone doing that changes that.
    - _mlbt 1y ago
      I'm not saying they don't deserve some form of due process, but they are not entitled to full on trials that citizens get. Due process could be as simple as can you prove that you have a legal right to be in this country? If yes, you can stay, if no, then you get deported. He absolutely should have had due process prior to being deported. I am not arguing against that. From everything I've been able to gather on this story, the issue isn't really whether he should have been deported, it's that there was a legal order preventing him from being deported to the country of El Salvador specifically because a rival gang in the country would kill him for being a member of MS-13.
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        If the accusation is as simple as "you don't have a right to be in the country" what makes proving it different from a real trial? > From everything I've been able to gather on this story, the issue isn't really whether he should have been deported, it's that there was a legal order preventing him from being deported to the country of El Salvador specifically because a rival gang in the country would kill him for being a member of MS-13. If there's only one place you could reasonably be deported to, and there's an order saying you can't be deported there, then you can't be deported and you effectively have legal residency.
  - ProjectArcturis 1y ago
    >He is an MS-13 gang member. He beat his wife, to the point that she filed a restraining order against him. There is evidence that he was engaging in human trafficking. Again, these are EXACTLY the sorts of allegations that should be adjudicated in court. Citizens and non-citizens all have the right to a fair trial before imprisonment. If all this is true, why couldn't the government try and convict him of a crime? Because they couldn't, of course. The evidence is made up and parroted by useful idiots to justify the end of the rule of law.
    - _mlbt 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - ProjectArcturis 1y ago
        I honestly don't care what the Post or any other newspaper has to say about him. If there's so much evidence why didn't they present it in court?
SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago
El Salvador isn't his country of origin.
- _mlbt 1y ago
  Everything I've read says that he was born in El Salvador and his citizenship is El Salvadoran. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
Dylan16807 1y ago
> in this country illegally His status as far as staying in the country and not deported to El Salvador in particular was legal.
acdha 1y ago
I’m not trying to convince you that they shouldn’t deport anyone. I’m saying that the government should always follow the law when doing so. For example, if we’re being told that someone is a violent terrorist they should easily be able to prove that in court.

by _mlbt 1y ago

ProjectArcturis 1y ago

I'm not trying to convince you that illegal immigrants shouldn't be deported. What I would like to convince you is that any time the government takes action against a person, the government should have to prove their case in open court, and the person should have a fair chance to defend themselves. Is this particular person MS-13? Did he have a legal right to be here? You don't know. None of us do, not for sure. 10 years ago, the idea that the government could sweep people off the streets and deliver them to a foreign prison with no trial or recourse would have been seen as absurd by every part of the political spectrum.

_mlbt 1y ago
I think it's also absurd that the media is painting this guy as some innocent victim. He is an MS-13 gang member. He beat his wife, to the point that she filed a restraining order against him. There is evidence that he was engaging in human trafficking. Citizens have rights to trial. Those who have entered the country illegally do not have the same legal rights that citizens do.
- MiguelX413 1y ago
  They should have properly convicted him in court then.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  That's a terrible idea. Everyone needs trials or the government can make up a quick lie about anyone (or make a mistake about anyone) and then their rights disappear. And in general, bad people still deserve trials. There is no crime you can point to someone doing that changes that.
  - _mlbt 1y ago
    I'm not saying they don't deserve some form of due process, but they are not entitled to full on trials that citizens get. Due process could be as simple as can you prove that you have a legal right to be in this country? If yes, you can stay, if no, then you get deported. He absolutely should have had due process prior to being deported. I am not arguing against that. From everything I've been able to gather on this story, the issue isn't really whether he should have been deported, it's that there was a legal order preventing him from being deported to the country of El Salvador specifically because a rival gang in the country would kill him for being a member of MS-13.
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      If the accusation is as simple as "you don't have a right to be in the country" what makes proving it different from a real trial? > From everything I've been able to gather on this story, the issue isn't really whether he should have been deported, it's that there was a legal order preventing him from being deported to the country of El Salvador specifically because a rival gang in the country would kill him for being a member of MS-13. If there's only one place you could reasonably be deported to, and there's an order saying you can't be deported there, then you can't be deported and you effectively have legal residency.
- ProjectArcturis 1y ago
  >He is an MS-13 gang member. He beat his wife, to the point that she filed a restraining order against him. There is evidence that he was engaging in human trafficking. Again, these are EXACTLY the sorts of allegations that should be adjudicated in court. Citizens and non-citizens all have the right to a fair trial before imprisonment. If all this is true, why couldn't the government try and convict him of a crime? Because they couldn't, of course. The evidence is made up and parroted by useful idiots to justify the end of the rule of law.
  - _mlbt 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - ProjectArcturis 1y ago
      I honestly don't care what the Post or any other newspaper has to say about him. If there's so much evidence why didn't they present it in court?

SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago

El Salvador isn't his country of origin.

_mlbt 1y ago
Everything I've read says that he was born in El Salvador and his citizenship is El Salvadoran. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Dylan16807 1y ago

> in this country illegally His status as far as staying in the country and not deported to El Salvador in particular was legal.

acdha 1y ago

I’m not trying to convince you that they shouldn’t deport anyone. I’m saying that the government should always follow the law when doing so. For example, if we’re being told that someone is a violent terrorist they should easily be able to prove that in court.