4 ms·

I think it would have been very apparent at the start of 2024 that Tesla cannot compete with the Chinese manufacturers on cost. And Robotaxi is an attempt to ex

I think it would have been very apparent at the start of 2024 that Tesla cannot compete with the Chinese manufacturers on cost. And Robotaxi is an attempt to expand beyond the luxury car bracket before someone eats that lunch. Without the article spin, the decisions could be quite sensible for the market at that time. It also helps explain the lengths Musk has since gone to to ensure Chinese manufacturers don't get access to the US market.

tw04 2y ago
> I think it would have been very apparent at the start of 2024 that Tesla cannot compete with the Chinese manufacturers on cost. But they weren’t going to have to anytime soon. The US would have had very little issue convincing their allies and trade partners to block or tariff Chinese EVs to the point of preventing them from undercutting the market.
- apercu 2y ago
  Agreed. Ford, GM, etc. would have ensured it without Musks help. And, is that a bad thing? China et all is not exactly our friend and we should stop sending them all of our money. Before I get brigaded, I am firmly opposed to the Trump/Musk planned theological oligarchy.
  - sneak 2y ago
    Americans, however, are our friends (as is China, our biggest and most important trading partner) and everyone benefits from trade. Americans having access to more affordable high quality goods is a win for Americans. I’m not sure why people don’t realize this.
    - true_religion 2y ago
      The objection is that China is not a genuine trading partner that sees open and efficient markets as a good thing. They are instead the sort of trading partner that reminds people of the British Empire: they will produce all manufactured goods and you will handle all the more easily replaced aspects of the business from raw materials to soft services.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - apercu 2y ago
      Are Americans buying "high quality goods" from China all day?
      - zelda420 2y ago
        Isn’t nearly every tech worker on this forum using an apple product ‘Designed in California’ but actually made in china
        silverlake 2y ago
        China earns relatively little per iPhone/Mac. The complex components come from other countries like Taiwan, Korea and Japan. Apple earns a hefty profit for marketing savvy, iCloud services, and perhaps financing. China makes a pittance for screwing all the parts together. Where would you prefer to be in this product pipeline?
        apercu 2y ago
        Yep, I buy an iPhone "all day" from China. That's kind of a straw man argument. Go pick up every single cord, speaker, lamp, etc. in your house and look at the label. That low quality shit that lasts a year is what I am talking about. Furniture used to be handed down for generations. Now, if you move apartments twice it falls apart.
        watwut 2y ago
        The furniture used to stay in place and net be moved around distances all that much. Due to being heavy and difficult to transport. And impossible to disassemble and reassemble.
        ben_w 2y ago
        The cost of all the tech bought in a year is not insignificant. Back when I was in full time education, my summer holiday job was making HVAC on a production line. The transformers I screwed into backing plates came from China. The furniature you complain of? The furniature I have comes mostly from Ikea, which is famously not Chinese.
- stubish 2y ago
  Very hard to convince people to remove Chinese EVs from the market once they are there. Making EVs less affordable is not a green policy, and doesn't get votes from the other end of politics either unless you actually have a local car manufacturing industry to protect. The market is already undercut in places like Australia, and other manufacturers like Nissan and Volkswagen have already been dropping prices to stay relevant. You can now buy EVs in Australia that are not in the luxury car bracket.

tw04 2y ago

> I think it would have been very apparent at the start of 2024 that Tesla cannot compete with the Chinese manufacturers on cost. But they weren’t going to have to anytime soon. The US would have had very little issue convincing their allies and trade partners to block or tariff Chinese EVs to the point of preventing them from undercutting the market.

apercu 2y ago
Agreed. Ford, GM, etc. would have ensured it without Musks help. And, is that a bad thing? China et all is not exactly our friend and we should stop sending them all of our money. Before I get brigaded, I am firmly opposed to the Trump/Musk planned theological oligarchy.
- sneak 2y ago
  Americans, however, are our friends (as is China, our biggest and most important trading partner) and everyone benefits from trade. Americans having access to more affordable high quality goods is a win for Americans. I’m not sure why people don’t realize this.
  - true_religion 2y ago
    The objection is that China is not a genuine trading partner that sees open and efficient markets as a good thing. They are instead the sort of trading partner that reminds people of the British Empire: they will produce all manufactured goods and you will handle all the more easily replaced aspects of the business from raw materials to soft services.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - apercu 2y ago
    Are Americans buying "high quality goods" from China all day?
    - zelda420 2y ago
      Isn’t nearly every tech worker on this forum using an apple product ‘Designed in California’ but actually made in china
      - silverlake 2y ago
        China earns relatively little per iPhone/Mac. The complex components come from other countries like Taiwan, Korea and Japan. Apple earns a hefty profit for marketing savvy, iCloud services, and perhaps financing. China makes a pittance for screwing all the parts together. Where would you prefer to be in this product pipeline?
      - apercu 2y ago
        Yep, I buy an iPhone "all day" from China. That's kind of a straw man argument. Go pick up every single cord, speaker, lamp, etc. in your house and look at the label. That low quality shit that lasts a year is what I am talking about. Furniture used to be handed down for generations. Now, if you move apartments twice it falls apart.
        watwut 2y ago
        The furniture used to stay in place and net be moved around distances all that much. Due to being heavy and difficult to transport. And impossible to disassemble and reassemble.
        ben_w 2y ago
        The cost of all the tech bought in a year is not insignificant. Back when I was in full time education, my summer holiday job was making HVAC on a production line. The transformers I screwed into backing plates came from China. The furniature you complain of? The furniature I have comes mostly from Ikea, which is famously not Chinese.
stubish 2y ago
Very hard to convince people to remove Chinese EVs from the market once they are there. Making EVs less affordable is not a green policy, and doesn't get votes from the other end of politics either unless you actually have a local car manufacturing industry to protect. The market is already undercut in places like Australia, and other manufacturers like Nissan and Volkswagen have already been dropping prices to stay relevant. You can now buy EVs in Australia that are not in the luxury car bracket.