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Your words don't make any sense in this environment. The idea that any person at an agency could stand up to or convince the DOGE team of anything is prepostero

Your words don't make any sense in this environment. The idea that any person at an agency could stand up to or convince the DOGE team of anything is preposterous. Anything that weakens the US or puts our cybersecurity in a place that Russia can exfiltrate data will happen. This is not about the US needing anything and it's silly to think otherwise. See also the NLRB whistleblower and the security backdoors that DOGE demanded to allow data exfiltration and the subsequent death threats to the whistle blower. You mindset is behind the times and needs to adjust to a, frankly, insane current reality.

mmooss 2y ago
> Your words don't make any sense in this environment. The idea that any person at an agency could stand up to or convince the DOGE team of anything is preposterous. Your comment embraces and spreads the powerlessness they want you to feel and spread. Of course you can stop them - like any other negotiation in life, especially non-friendly ones, you need to make it in Trump's interest either by carrot or stick. Trump has interests; identify them and identify your power in those regards ('power and interest' is the term), and use it. Also, stop helping them make DOGE the scapegoat. It's Trump.
- epistasis 2y ago
  DOGE is doing this, it's not a "scapegoat", and Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. What leverage do you have for the DOGE boys? What power? Resigning? Because on the Defense side of the government the best leverage that some teams have found is mass resignation, meaning that nothing happens. There is no negotiating with bullies, it merely breeds more concessions.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    > DOGE is doing this, it's not a "scapegoat", and Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. DOGE follows Trump's direction and acts on his behalf, as you must know. They make a big deal out of DOGE so Trump's name is less attached to these actions. Then they can take much of the blame with them when they go away, with Trump and the GOP blaming them for 'excesses'. > Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. > What leverage do you have for the DOGE boys? You don't understand how negotiations work. Everyone has interests, strengths and weaknesses, and power. You need to make it in Trump's interest to keep the CVE program. Everyone saying they are helpless, and that anything else is ridiculous, are panicking. Very unfortunately - dangerously - many people legitimize the panic. It's so normalized that it's "ridiculous" not to panic. Every day you continue this behavior, you fall further and further behind and lead others in that direction. Will you wake up in time?
    - djur 2y ago
      I don't think there's any reason to believe that Trump is mentally competent to understand what's happening here or engage in any kind of meaningful negotiation.
    - figgis 2y ago
      Currently the "discussion of leverage" you are talking about is out of the hands of the leaders who run these programs. The amount of disrespect you have shown for someone that is just telling you 99% of federal workers have absolutely no leverage says a lot.
      - stavros 2y ago
        Isn't the US supposed to be the birthplace of modern democracy? When did you guys forget about protests and rallies?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
        It's just not practical to organize a rally to save a niche cybersecurity program. People are busy protesting to protect Medicaid and keep themselves out of foreign gulags, they can't divert the attention to CVE.
        stavros 2y ago
        That's fine, protests aren't surgical tools anyway. As long as people are protesting, it's OK.
        nosianu 2y ago
        > Isn't the US supposed to be the birthplace of modern democracy? I would not dare not mention the revolutions in England and in France. And before that some Greece city states, and definitely Rome. The US declaration of independence is just another point.
- chris_wot 2y ago
  No, it's definitely DOGE doing all of this. Each one of these young fools need to be named and shamed. The level of damage they have done is unprecedented. They will, in their later years, hopefully look back at this time in their life with a great deal of shame and embarrassment.
  - Wololooo 2y ago
    I have the feeling that there will be no redemption arc for those ones and the repenting would be for show before a court of public opinion. I'm going to be to the point here, if you guys over there don't start to heavily push and organise, and I said it already, you're one Reichstag fire away from something very bad, and from my point of view, there is probably one kristallnacht pending in the mix. This is not a hyperbole and if someone wonders why this has relevance to the discussions, in this case most of the people around here are blue team, and it does feel like the red team has already taken anything that wasn't attached and now taking the time to take what's bolted on... I guess the silver lining of all this, is in their hubris, they forgot the bread and games motto, so they're might still be a chance to turn things around somewhat... But the window is closing at an impressive speed.
    - chris_wot 2y ago
      I'm an Australian. We have a guy called Clive Palmer, who has formed a party called (no joke) the "Trumpet of Patriots". It's certain nobody will vote for him. The opposition leader married himself to MAGA (and close to Trump) and now it appears like this will prevent him from winning. The rest of the world is mostly against Trump.
  - throwawaygmbno 2y ago
    It needs to be the "shame and embarrassment" Nazis felt at the end of WWII and not the traditional shame and embarrassment they are used to feeling after losing the civil war and Jim Crow laws. It will just happen again in a generation otherwise.
    - watwut 2y ago
- watwut 2y ago
  No, blaming "someone inside DHS" is what makes no sense. It 100% makes sense to blame DOGE and actual perpetrators. You can stop them only if you start to blame those who do the stuff you dont like instead of blaming everyone else except them.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    Why wouldn't you blame Trump?

mmooss 2y ago

> Your words don't make any sense in this environment. The idea that any person at an agency could stand up to or convince the DOGE team of anything is preposterous. Your comment embraces and spreads the powerlessness they want you to feel and spread. Of course you can stop them - like any other negotiation in life, especially non-friendly ones, you need to make it in Trump's interest either by carrot or stick. Trump has interests; identify them and identify your power in those regards ('power and interest' is the term), and use it. Also, stop helping them make DOGE the scapegoat. It's Trump.

epistasis 2y ago
DOGE is doing this, it's not a "scapegoat", and Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. What leverage do you have for the DOGE boys? What power? Resigning? Because on the Defense side of the government the best leverage that some teams have found is mass resignation, meaning that nothing happens. There is no negotiating with bullies, it merely breeds more concessions.
- mmooss 2y ago
  > DOGE is doing this, it's not a "scapegoat", and Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. DOGE follows Trump's direction and acts on his behalf, as you must know. They make a big deal out of DOGE so Trump's name is less attached to these actions. Then they can take much of the blame with them when they go away, with Trump and the GOP blaming them for 'excesses'. > Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. > What leverage do you have for the DOGE boys? You don't understand how negotiations work. Everyone has interests, strengths and weaknesses, and power. You need to make it in Trump's interest to keep the CVE program. Everyone saying they are helpless, and that anything else is ridiculous, are panicking. Very unfortunately - dangerously - many people legitimize the panic. It's so normalized that it's "ridiculous" not to panic. Every day you continue this behavior, you fall further and further behind and lead others in that direction. Will you wake up in time?
  - djur 2y ago
    I don't think there's any reason to believe that Trump is mentally competent to understand what's happening here or engage in any kind of meaningful negotiation.
  - figgis 2y ago
    Currently the "discussion of leverage" you are talking about is out of the hands of the leaders who run these programs. The amount of disrespect you have shown for someone that is just telling you 99% of federal workers have absolutely no leverage says a lot.
    - stavros 2y ago
      Isn't the US supposed to be the birthplace of modern democracy? When did you guys forget about protests and rallies?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
        It's just not practical to organize a rally to save a niche cybersecurity program. People are busy protesting to protect Medicaid and keep themselves out of foreign gulags, they can't divert the attention to CVE.
        stavros 2y ago
        That's fine, protests aren't surgical tools anyway. As long as people are protesting, it's OK.
      - nosianu 2y ago
        > Isn't the US supposed to be the birthplace of modern democracy? I would not dare not mention the revolutions in England and in France. And before that some Greece city states, and definitely Rome. The US declaration of independence is just another point.
chris_wot 2y ago
No, it's definitely DOGE doing all of this. Each one of these young fools need to be named and shamed. The level of damage they have done is unprecedented. They will, in their later years, hopefully look back at this time in their life with a great deal of shame and embarrassment.
- Wololooo 2y ago
  I have the feeling that there will be no redemption arc for those ones and the repenting would be for show before a court of public opinion. I'm going to be to the point here, if you guys over there don't start to heavily push and organise, and I said it already, you're one Reichstag fire away from something very bad, and from my point of view, there is probably one kristallnacht pending in the mix. This is not a hyperbole and if someone wonders why this has relevance to the discussions, in this case most of the people around here are blue team, and it does feel like the red team has already taken anything that wasn't attached and now taking the time to take what's bolted on... I guess the silver lining of all this, is in their hubris, they forgot the bread and games motto, so they're might still be a chance to turn things around somewhat... But the window is closing at an impressive speed.
  - chris_wot 2y ago
    I'm an Australian. We have a guy called Clive Palmer, who has formed a party called (no joke) the "Trumpet of Patriots". It's certain nobody will vote for him. The opposition leader married himself to MAGA (and close to Trump) and now it appears like this will prevent him from winning. The rest of the world is mostly against Trump.
- throwawaygmbno 2y ago
  It needs to be the "shame and embarrassment" Nazis felt at the end of WWII and not the traditional shame and embarrassment they are used to feeling after losing the civil war and Jim Crow laws. It will just happen again in a generation otherwise.
  - watwut 2y ago
watwut 2y ago
No, blaming "someone inside DHS" is what makes no sense. It 100% makes sense to blame DOGE and actual perpetrators. You can stop them only if you start to blame those who do the stuff you dont like instead of blaming everyone else except them.
- mmooss 2y ago
  Why wouldn't you blame Trump?