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Im afraid you'd need to be pretty liberal with your definition of rich at this point to dig us out of this hole through taxes alone.

hoseyor 2y ago
Not really. The top 1% item roughly $50 Trillion in assets. In 2010…15 years ago…that was only $15 Trillion. If you look at the graph of the national debt and the graph of the money supply, i.e. money printing, you will find they basically overlap, correlate, track. I assume I don’t have to point out that 50-36 is 15, i.e., basically the whole growth of assets has been roughly fueled by “money printing” fraud. (Yes, I’m simplifying a bit) What has basically occurred, is a fraud, what is not really different than loan fraud. The people in charge of the bank also wrote themselves loans they didn’t have to pay back and left the bank with the $36 trillion debt as they pocketed the both the $36 Trillion in debt, as well as plundered all the assets, i.e., much of government spending not in excess of revenue. It’s basically been a plundering operation that has only escalated over the last 25 years and is the greatest national security threat to the US and arguably the security of the whole planet’s civilization. It’s short sighted greed. And yes, this whole community is heavily involved and engaged in it as the VC money has flown like water for 20 years now … backed by fraudulent government “money printing” that has plundered regular people. It will have consequences, one way or another. The devil always comes to collect when you don’t expect and in the worst way. That’s not a superstition, it’s a metaphor of human nature learned over unknown millennia of the same catastrophic patterns. Frankly, the only thing that could save anything is to constrain the and revalue currency by seizing the plundered assets of the roughly top 1%, maybe even 3%, and paying down the national debt. It would be painful like drug rehab, but the alternative is OD and death and far greater suffering.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  I just want to point that while yes, this is true, there's no physical or economical law that mandates that printed money goes to the finance system. This happens due to explicit government policy, one that has been relentlessly pushed all over the world since the 80s.
SecretDreams 2y ago
Tax wealth somehow, not just income. It's clear the accumulation has become a generational problem. Your great grandkids could cure cancer and bezo's could do nothing and yours would never have a fraction of the wealth his have.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  Even with their preposterous salaries, NBA stars would have to work for millenia without spending anything before getting Bezos-level wealth.
  - SecretDreams 2y ago
    Everything about this sentence makes me sad lol
- libertine 2y ago
  > Tax wealth somehow, not just income. This is a critical point - in my opinion, wealth can't be at the same time a collateral to acquire more assets or to buy cheap money, and something that can't be taxed. Either tax it or make credit/debt to be considered income after a certain net worth value, like 100 million would be more than enough.
- anonfordays 2y ago
  >Tax wealth somehow I don't unserstand how you can tax something that varies in value by double digit percentages every week. If Elon got taxed when TSLA was $450 per share, and six months later it's now $250 per share... How much should he be taxed? Should he be provided a tax refund?
  - SecretDreams 2y ago
    He can't eat with his shares. He can use them as collateral for debt. Presently, that's how he dodges taxes. You'd close that loophole.
    - 2y ago
pnutjam 2y ago
Taxing the rich will have all sorts of positive knock-on effects that will also go a long way towards fixing these issues.
littlestymaar 2y ago
No, you are just underestimating how rich the rich are.
- fooList 2y ago
  Could you be overestimating how easy it is to take possession of their money given global free trade? In 10 years, what are the odds you and others will have finally, after all these years, actually managed to have “taxed the rich” as has been proposed as the solution to current debt levels for many years now? If we cannot be certain of those tax revenues from finally “taxing the rich”, then they cannot solve the debt problem and we therefore need to look for other solutions. Not that the wreckless and irresponsible cuts from DOGE are the solution. They are likely to increase the size and scope of the government in the long run, after impairing it’s efficiency and operational capacity in the short. Hopefully the dems don’t blow the opportunity this time.
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    The US government can (and regularly do) sanction entire countries, trade is only “global” and “free” to the extent permitted by Washington. Saying that the rich could somehow avoid the US government by moving abroad is a fallacy.
grafmax 2y ago
The top 11–12 richest individuals in the U.S. hold assets equivalent to the national budget deficit. Let’s not fool ourselves. The money is there.
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  The budget deficit so far. So yes, if we were to take all their money, the debt would go to zero for exactly one moment, then we would go back to spending more than we have immediately, but now with the chilling effect that taking wealth like that would have. Not super helpful.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

hoseyor 2y ago

Not really. The top 1% item roughly $50 Trillion in assets. In 2010…15 years ago…that was only $15 Trillion. If you look at the graph of the national debt and the graph of the money supply, i.e. money printing, you will find they basically overlap, correlate, track. I assume I don’t have to point out that 50-36 is 15, i.e., basically the whole growth of assets has been roughly fueled by “money printing” fraud. (Yes, I’m simplifying a bit) What has basically occurred, is a fraud, what is not really different than loan fraud. The people in charge of the bank also wrote themselves loans they didn’t have to pay back and left the bank with the $36 trillion debt as they pocketed the both the $36 Trillion in debt, as well as plundered all the assets, i.e., much of government spending not in excess of revenue. It’s basically been a plundering operation that has only escalated over the last 25 years and is the greatest national security threat to the US and arguably the security of the whole planet’s civilization. It’s short sighted greed. And yes, this whole community is heavily involved and engaged in it as the VC money has flown like water for 20 years now … backed by fraudulent government “money printing” that has plundered regular people. It will have consequences, one way or another. The devil always comes to collect when you don’t expect and in the worst way. That’s not a superstition, it’s a metaphor of human nature learned over unknown millennia of the same catastrophic patterns. Frankly, the only thing that could save anything is to constrain the and revalue currency by seizing the plundered assets of the roughly top 1%, maybe even 3%, and paying down the national debt. It would be painful like drug rehab, but the alternative is OD and death and far greater suffering.

marcosdumay 2y ago
I just want to point that while yes, this is true, there's no physical or economical law that mandates that printed money goes to the finance system. This happens due to explicit government policy, one that has been relentlessly pushed all over the world since the 80s.

SecretDreams 2y ago

Tax wealth somehow, not just income. It's clear the accumulation has become a generational problem. Your great grandkids could cure cancer and bezo's could do nothing and yours would never have a fraction of the wealth his have.

littlestymaar 2y ago
Even with their preposterous salaries, NBA stars would have to work for millenia without spending anything before getting Bezos-level wealth.
- SecretDreams 2y ago
  Everything about this sentence makes me sad lol
libertine 2y ago
> Tax wealth somehow, not just income. This is a critical point - in my opinion, wealth can't be at the same time a collateral to acquire more assets or to buy cheap money, and something that can't be taxed. Either tax it or make credit/debt to be considered income after a certain net worth value, like 100 million would be more than enough.
anonfordays 2y ago
>Tax wealth somehow I don't unserstand how you can tax something that varies in value by double digit percentages every week. If Elon got taxed when TSLA was $450 per share, and six months later it's now $250 per share... How much should he be taxed? Should he be provided a tax refund?
- SecretDreams 2y ago
  He can't eat with his shares. He can use them as collateral for debt. Presently, that's how he dodges taxes. You'd close that loophole.
  - 2y ago

pnutjam 2y ago

Taxing the rich will have all sorts of positive knock-on effects that will also go a long way towards fixing these issues.

littlestymaar 2y ago

No, you are just underestimating how rich the rich are.

fooList 2y ago
Could you be overestimating how easy it is to take possession of their money given global free trade? In 10 years, what are the odds you and others will have finally, after all these years, actually managed to have “taxed the rich” as has been proposed as the solution to current debt levels for many years now? If we cannot be certain of those tax revenues from finally “taxing the rich”, then they cannot solve the debt problem and we therefore need to look for other solutions. Not that the wreckless and irresponsible cuts from DOGE are the solution. They are likely to increase the size and scope of the government in the long run, after impairing it’s efficiency and operational capacity in the short. Hopefully the dems don’t blow the opportunity this time.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  The US government can (and regularly do) sanction entire countries, trade is only “global” and “free” to the extent permitted by Washington. Saying that the rich could somehow avoid the US government by moving abroad is a fallacy.

grafmax 2y ago

The top 11–12 richest individuals in the U.S. hold assets equivalent to the national budget deficit. Let’s not fool ourselves. The money is there.

BobbyJo 2y ago
The budget deficit so far. So yes, if we were to take all their money, the debt would go to zero for exactly one moment, then we would go back to spending more than we have immediately, but now with the chilling effect that taking wealth like that would have. Not super helpful.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]