4 ms·

> Or are there actual DOGE sympathies within the HN population? I wouldn't mind that so much, except they're minimally-active in the comment section and instea

by ethbr1 2y ago

> Or are there actual DOGE sympathies within the HN population? I wouldn't mind that so much, except they're minimally-active in the comment section and instead use flagging. At least defend your beliefs. Switching to https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active (/active) with showdead is a better HN experience, nowadays.

ivewonyoung 2y ago
> I wouldn't mind that so much, except they're minimally-active in the comment section and instead use flagging. At least defend your beliefs. From what I see, even good comments with facts and sources that go against the prevalent narrative are either downvoted or flagged a good chunk of the time, which discourages people from commenting(as it's meant to be) because of lack of visibility. It can also make the commenters unable to post comments for hours because HN's rate limiter kicks in, so they are effectively silenced. Also, many times they're attacked personally and those comments violating HN's etiquette are not downvoted or flagged. Not to mention very low quality Redditesque are also not downvoted or flagged, but are upvoted, which lowers the quality of HN as a whole.
- outer_web 2y ago
  "People don't like my opinions therefore I am going to sabotage the discussion from obscurity."
  - ivewonyoung 2y ago
    A good chunk of the time, it's sourced and documented facts that are flagged and downvoted, to reduce visibility.
    - outer_web 2y ago
      I stand corrected. Please flag anything you disagree with.
    - shkkmo 2y ago
      Are you sure? There can be absolutely be voting and flagging biases, but the majority if the time it happens it is due to issues of tone for comments that are picking fights rather then prompting interesting discourse. When you get flagged or down voted, the most productive response is to look at how you were presenting your information or opinion and if there was a way to do so that would be more inclined to produce a productive conversation. Even when it's borderline, there's usually something you could have changed that wouldn't have drawn as much partisan ire and it is valuable to consider this, as partisan ire turns off brains.
      - ivewonyoung 2y ago
        I'll give you one example that I saw just now of someone else's comment that was downvoted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710265 It happens all the time. Here's an example of my comment on the same topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43256114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43256114 The tone policing one has to do has to be done only by one side, the other "side" can write very low quality comments with personal attacks and not get downvoted or flagged as frequently. It's same on Reddit too. Absolute misinformation and FUD gets voted up if they favor the prevalent side and countering comments are downvoted creating a chilling effect to reduce visibility and discourage participation of folks that don't agree 100% with the political narrative. That is exactly how Reddit became more and more extreme leading to popular subs becoming full of death threats at one point. And HN is on it's way there.
      - ethbr1 2y ago
        ^ Honestly, the most useful approach. I can't change other people, but I can change myself. Sometimes, it is what it is. But often I can find a way to more effectively say what I was trying. Exhibit A: avoiding the dangling ad hom after an otherwise solid point. Seductive but unproductive.
        ivewonyoung 2y ago
        I just gave a couple of examples in the other comment in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710568 Zero ad hominem or anything else. And I see this all the time. Not to mention only one "side" is subject to this suppression so it's no surprise that they prefer to(or are forced by the site mechanics to) disengage from commenting. If sourced verifiable facts stated in a neutral way are punished, what chance do opinions or personal takes have? It's a textbook example of an echo chamber.
kayge 2y ago
The /active page is helpful, thanks! I also just recently realized that the 'hckr news'[0] interface doesn't hide or remove flagged stories if you're using the Top 10/20/50 view options, so if something is getting discussed/upvoted it will be there. [0]https://hckrnews.com/ https://hckrnews.com/
hintymad 2y ago
I used to discuss my different views and presented data or facts that I gathered The facts, of course, could be wrong, as I have limited faulty to verify everything. Yet, instead of pointing out what I said was wrong, I got angry posts attacking my motives and my posts were flagged. So, now I know the game, and for such politically charged posts, I know what I can do easily: flag it away.
- outer_web 2y ago
  You flag posts with politics because you don't like having been flagged?
  - hintymad 2y ago
    The Iron Rule, right? The benefit of the Iron Rule is that those who break rules face consequences, preventing them from escalating their behavior. So you cancel me, I cancel you, only harder. You play law fare, I do the same to you, only more legally but in a harsher way. Hada yada yada. It’s the only way to keep the society civil, eventually.
    - cosmicgadget 2y ago
      You post something and based on its content you assume someone from an ideological group flagged it. And for that reason you flag and opinion of someone you assume is from that group? What a way to live.
      - hintymad 2y ago
        Actually, good point. Thanks for pointing that out.
    - blargey 2y ago
      I can't fathom the thought process that claims the goal is "preventing escalation" and immediately decides the only method is escalation.
mvdtnz 2y ago
I don't need to defend it. I flag this stuff because I don't care. I'm not American and I'm tired of seeing American politics on this site. It's not what I come here for.

by ethbr1 2y ago

ivewonyoung 2y ago

> I wouldn't mind that so much, except they're minimally-active in the comment section and instead use flagging. At least defend your beliefs. From what I see, even good comments with facts and sources that go against the prevalent narrative are either downvoted or flagged a good chunk of the time, which discourages people from commenting(as it's meant to be) because of lack of visibility. It can also make the commenters unable to post comments for hours because HN's rate limiter kicks in, so they are effectively silenced. Also, many times they're attacked personally and those comments violating HN's etiquette are not downvoted or flagged. Not to mention very low quality Redditesque are also not downvoted or flagged, but are upvoted, which lowers the quality of HN as a whole.

outer_web 2y ago
"People don't like my opinions therefore I am going to sabotage the discussion from obscurity."
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  A good chunk of the time, it's sourced and documented facts that are flagged and downvoted, to reduce visibility.
  - outer_web 2y ago
    I stand corrected. Please flag anything you disagree with.
  - shkkmo 2y ago
    Are you sure? There can be absolutely be voting and flagging biases, but the majority if the time it happens it is due to issues of tone for comments that are picking fights rather then prompting interesting discourse. When you get flagged or down voted, the most productive response is to look at how you were presenting your information or opinion and if there was a way to do so that would be more inclined to produce a productive conversation. Even when it's borderline, there's usually something you could have changed that wouldn't have drawn as much partisan ire and it is valuable to consider this, as partisan ire turns off brains.
    - ivewonyoung 2y ago
      I'll give you one example that I saw just now of someone else's comment that was downvoted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710265 It happens all the time. Here's an example of my comment on the same topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43256114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43256114 The tone policing one has to do has to be done only by one side, the other "side" can write very low quality comments with personal attacks and not get downvoted or flagged as frequently. It's same on Reddit too. Absolute misinformation and FUD gets voted up if they favor the prevalent side and countering comments are downvoted creating a chilling effect to reduce visibility and discourage participation of folks that don't agree 100% with the political narrative. That is exactly how Reddit became more and more extreme leading to popular subs becoming full of death threats at one point. And HN is on it's way there.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      ^ Honestly, the most useful approach. I can't change other people, but I can change myself. Sometimes, it is what it is. But often I can find a way to more effectively say what I was trying. Exhibit A: avoiding the dangling ad hom after an otherwise solid point. Seductive but unproductive.
      - ivewonyoung 2y ago
        I just gave a couple of examples in the other comment in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710568 Zero ad hominem or anything else. And I see this all the time. Not to mention only one "side" is subject to this suppression so it's no surprise that they prefer to(or are forced by the site mechanics to) disengage from commenting. If sourced verifiable facts stated in a neutral way are punished, what chance do opinions or personal takes have? It's a textbook example of an echo chamber.

kayge 2y ago

The /active page is helpful, thanks! I also just recently realized that the 'hckr news'[0] interface doesn't hide or remove flagged stories if you're using the Top 10/20/50 view options, so if something is getting discussed/upvoted it will be there. [0]https://hckrnews.com/ https://hckrnews.com/

hintymad 2y ago

I used to discuss my different views and presented data or facts that I gathered The facts, of course, could be wrong, as I have limited faulty to verify everything. Yet, instead of pointing out what I said was wrong, I got angry posts attacking my motives and my posts were flagged. So, now I know the game, and for such politically charged posts, I know what I can do easily: flag it away.

outer_web 2y ago
You flag posts with politics because you don't like having been flagged?
- hintymad 2y ago
  The Iron Rule, right? The benefit of the Iron Rule is that those who break rules face consequences, preventing them from escalating their behavior. So you cancel me, I cancel you, only harder. You play law fare, I do the same to you, only more legally but in a harsher way. Hada yada yada. It’s the only way to keep the society civil, eventually.
  - cosmicgadget 2y ago
    You post something and based on its content you assume someone from an ideological group flagged it. And for that reason you flag and opinion of someone you assume is from that group? What a way to live.
    - hintymad 2y ago
      Actually, good point. Thanks for pointing that out.
  - blargey 2y ago
    I can't fathom the thought process that claims the goal is "preventing escalation" and immediately decides the only method is escalation.

mvdtnz 2y ago

I don't need to defend it. I flag this stuff because I don't care. I'm not American and I'm tired of seeing American politics on this site. It's not what I come here for.