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> Typically, stuff like this gets flagged off the front page within minutes. Why would that be, because it's too "political" for tech news? Or are there actual

> Typically, stuff like this gets flagged off the front page within minutes. Why would that be, because it's too "political" for tech news? Or are there actual DOGE sympathies within the HN population?

ethbr1 2y ago
> Or are there actual DOGE sympathies within the HN population? I wouldn't mind that so much, except they're minimally-active in the comment section and instead use flagging. At least defend your beliefs. Switching to https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active (/active) with showdead is a better HN experience, nowadays.
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  > I wouldn't mind that so much, except they're minimally-active in the comment section and instead use flagging. At least defend your beliefs. From what I see, even good comments with facts and sources that go against the prevalent narrative are either downvoted or flagged a good chunk of the time, which discourages people from commenting(as it's meant to be) because of lack of visibility. It can also make the commenters unable to post comments for hours because HN's rate limiter kicks in, so they are effectively silenced. Also, many times they're attacked personally and those comments violating HN's etiquette are not downvoted or flagged. Not to mention very low quality Redditesque are also not downvoted or flagged, but are upvoted, which lowers the quality of HN as a whole.
  - outer_web 2y ago
    "People don't like my opinions therefore I am going to sabotage the discussion from obscurity."
    - ivewonyoung 2y ago
      A good chunk of the time, it's sourced and documented facts that are flagged and downvoted, to reduce visibility.
      - outer_web 2y ago
        I stand corrected. Please flag anything you disagree with.
      - shkkmo 2y ago
        Are you sure? There can be absolutely be voting and flagging biases, but the majority if the time it happens it is due to issues of tone for comments that are picking fights rather then prompting interesting discourse. When you get flagged or down voted, the most productive response is to look at how you were presenting your information or opinion and if there was a way to do so that would be more inclined to produce a productive conversation. Even when it's borderline, there's usually something you could have changed that wouldn't have drawn as much partisan ire and it is valuable to consider this, as partisan ire turns off brains.
        ivewonyoung 2y ago
        I'll give you one example that I saw just now of someone else's comment that was downvoted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710265 It happens all the time. Here's an example of my comment on the same topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43256114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43256114 The tone policing one has to do has to be done only by one side, the other "side" can write very low quality comments with personal attacks and not get downvoted or flagged as frequently. It's same on Reddit too. Absolute misinformation and FUD gets voted up if they favor the prevalent side and countering comments are downvoted creating a chilling effect to reduce visibility and discourage participation of folks that don't agree 100% with the political narrative. That is exactly how Reddit became more and more extreme leading to popular subs becoming full of death threats at one point. And HN is on it's way there.
        ethbr1 2y ago
        ^ Honestly, the most useful approach. I can't change other people, but I can change myself. Sometimes, it is what it is. But often I can find a way to more effectively say what I was trying. Exhibit A: avoiding the dangling ad hom after an otherwise solid point. Seductive but unproductive.
- kayge 2y ago
  The /active page is helpful, thanks! I also just recently realized that the 'hckr news'[0] interface doesn't hide or remove flagged stories if you're using the Top 10/20/50 view options, so if something is getting discussed/upvoted it will be there. [0]https://hckrnews.com/ https://hckrnews.com/
- hintymad 2y ago
  I used to discuss my different views and presented data or facts that I gathered The facts, of course, could be wrong, as I have limited faulty to verify everything. Yet, instead of pointing out what I said was wrong, I got angry posts attacking my motives and my posts were flagged. So, now I know the game, and for such politically charged posts, I know what I can do easily: flag it away.
  - outer_web 2y ago
    You flag posts with politics because you don't like having been flagged?
    - hintymad 2y ago
      The Iron Rule, right? The benefit of the Iron Rule is that those who break rules face consequences, preventing them from escalating their behavior. So you cancel me, I cancel you, only harder. You play law fare, I do the same to you, only more legally but in a harsher way. Hada yada yada. It’s the only way to keep the society civil, eventually.
      - cosmicgadget 2y ago
        You post something and based on its content you assume someone from an ideological group flagged it. And for that reason you flag and opinion of someone you assume is from that group? What a way to live.
        hintymad 2y ago
        Actually, good point. Thanks for pointing that out.
      - blargey 2y ago
        I can't fathom the thought process that claims the goal is "preventing escalation" and immediately decides the only method is escalation.
- mvdtnz 2y ago
  I don't need to defend it. I flag this stuff because I don't care. I'm not American and I'm tired of seeing American politics on this site. It's not what I come here for.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Sahil Lavingia founder of Gumroad is DOGE. Joe Gebbia co-founder of Airbnb is DOGE. Not sympathetic to, they are DOGE. Those are just the ones I know off the top of my head from listening to basic reporting. The All In podcast is super pro-Trump/DOGE, with Sacks being the Trump regime's crypto czar (bringing that cohort on board). Peter Thiel. Musk. That's a lot of pro-DOGE headspace in HN related circles. A lot of people that HN related circles look up to and aspire to emulate. A lot of people that HN circles network with/have perverse incentives to support. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
- GolDDranks 2y ago
  That's chilling. I always thought HN as a kinda level-headed corner of the internet.
  - rozap 2y ago
    Easy to think that until you start viewing /active and see all the stuff that's flagged and doesn't appear on the front page. Any article, even those explicitly about tech, science and academia are flagged if they have even the gentlest suggestion that this administration is flawed.
  - deckard1 2y ago
    It pretends to be. But in reality it's always been a VC honey pot. I've stopped commenting here. I've made it a personal rule to only speak out against this tyranny and never talk about tech fluff, which is 100% of the front page of HN. I don't give two solid fucks about SQLite when the US government is throwing people in death camps in El Salvador. This site is straight tech bro fascism. People are finally realizing that Elon isn't the guy his PR team created. He's not Tony Stark.
    - archagon 2y ago
      I wish there was a similarly active community for hackers in the traditional sense.
leotravis10 2y ago
It's censorship plain and simple. And the admins/mods are still refusing to admit it.
- zzleeper 2y ago
  You really don't need many users to flag a post. Get five users constantly flagging anything that makes Trump look bad (and a complicit mod that doesn't undo this) and that's all you need.
- pjc50 2y ago
  sigh it's just how any site with algorithmic ranking works: some things are going to get down voted. Politics is one of them, for a bunch of reasons articulated in this thread. Complaining about censorship is not going to make any difference. Things have stabilized on roughly one thread on the evils of Republicans per day. Unfortunately they're managing a lot more evil per day than that.
bmacho 2y ago
> Or are there actual DOGE sympathies within the HN population? AFAIK a small number of them is enough to hide stuff from the front page. I don't know why is this the case, honestly I don't see any benefit over full time-moderators hiding problematic stuff, only negatives. Like why should a small political group be able to distort the news on the front page?
rbanffy 2y ago
> too "political" for tech news? Politics are everywhere. It’s how we negotiate consensus and make collective decisions. From what a government should do down to what features will be worked on this sprint and where are we having lunch today. Tech being apolitical is an illusion, and a very dangerous one.

ethbr1 2y ago

> Or are there actual DOGE sympathies within the HN population? I wouldn't mind that so much, except they're minimally-active in the comment section and instead use flagging. At least defend your beliefs. Switching to https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active (/active) with showdead is a better HN experience, nowadays.

ivewonyoung 2y ago
> I wouldn't mind that so much, except they're minimally-active in the comment section and instead use flagging. At least defend your beliefs. From what I see, even good comments with facts and sources that go against the prevalent narrative are either downvoted or flagged a good chunk of the time, which discourages people from commenting(as it's meant to be) because of lack of visibility. It can also make the commenters unable to post comments for hours because HN's rate limiter kicks in, so they are effectively silenced. Also, many times they're attacked personally and those comments violating HN's etiquette are not downvoted or flagged. Not to mention very low quality Redditesque are also not downvoted or flagged, but are upvoted, which lowers the quality of HN as a whole.
- outer_web 2y ago
  "People don't like my opinions therefore I am going to sabotage the discussion from obscurity."
  - ivewonyoung 2y ago
    A good chunk of the time, it's sourced and documented facts that are flagged and downvoted, to reduce visibility.
    - outer_web 2y ago
      I stand corrected. Please flag anything you disagree with.
    - shkkmo 2y ago
      Are you sure? There can be absolutely be voting and flagging biases, but the majority if the time it happens it is due to issues of tone for comments that are picking fights rather then prompting interesting discourse. When you get flagged or down voted, the most productive response is to look at how you were presenting your information or opinion and if there was a way to do so that would be more inclined to produce a productive conversation. Even when it's borderline, there's usually something you could have changed that wouldn't have drawn as much partisan ire and it is valuable to consider this, as partisan ire turns off brains.
      - ivewonyoung 2y ago
        I'll give you one example that I saw just now of someone else's comment that was downvoted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43710265 It happens all the time. Here's an example of my comment on the same topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43256114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43256114 The tone policing one has to do has to be done only by one side, the other "side" can write very low quality comments with personal attacks and not get downvoted or flagged as frequently. It's same on Reddit too. Absolute misinformation and FUD gets voted up if they favor the prevalent side and countering comments are downvoted creating a chilling effect to reduce visibility and discourage participation of folks that don't agree 100% with the political narrative. That is exactly how Reddit became more and more extreme leading to popular subs becoming full of death threats at one point. And HN is on it's way there.
      - ethbr1 2y ago
        ^ Honestly, the most useful approach. I can't change other people, but I can change myself. Sometimes, it is what it is. But often I can find a way to more effectively say what I was trying. Exhibit A: avoiding the dangling ad hom after an otherwise solid point. Seductive but unproductive.
kayge 2y ago
The /active page is helpful, thanks! I also just recently realized that the 'hckr news'[0] interface doesn't hide or remove flagged stories if you're using the Top 10/20/50 view options, so if something is getting discussed/upvoted it will be there. [0]https://hckrnews.com/ https://hckrnews.com/
hintymad 2y ago
I used to discuss my different views and presented data or facts that I gathered The facts, of course, could be wrong, as I have limited faulty to verify everything. Yet, instead of pointing out what I said was wrong, I got angry posts attacking my motives and my posts were flagged. So, now I know the game, and for such politically charged posts, I know what I can do easily: flag it away.
- outer_web 2y ago
  You flag posts with politics because you don't like having been flagged?
  - hintymad 2y ago
    The Iron Rule, right? The benefit of the Iron Rule is that those who break rules face consequences, preventing them from escalating their behavior. So you cancel me, I cancel you, only harder. You play law fare, I do the same to you, only more legally but in a harsher way. Hada yada yada. It’s the only way to keep the society civil, eventually.
    - cosmicgadget 2y ago
      You post something and based on its content you assume someone from an ideological group flagged it. And for that reason you flag and opinion of someone you assume is from that group? What a way to live.
      - hintymad 2y ago
        Actually, good point. Thanks for pointing that out.
    - blargey 2y ago
      I can't fathom the thought process that claims the goal is "preventing escalation" and immediately decides the only method is escalation.
mvdtnz 2y ago
I don't need to defend it. I flag this stuff because I don't care. I'm not American and I'm tired of seeing American politics on this site. It's not what I come here for.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Sahil Lavingia founder of Gumroad is DOGE. Joe Gebbia co-founder of Airbnb is DOGE. Not sympathetic to, they are DOGE. Those are just the ones I know off the top of my head from listening to basic reporting. The All In podcast is super pro-Trump/DOGE, with Sacks being the Trump regime's crypto czar (bringing that cohort on board). Peter Thiel. Musk. That's a lot of pro-DOGE headspace in HN related circles. A lot of people that HN related circles look up to and aspire to emulate. A lot of people that HN circles network with/have perverse incentives to support. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

GolDDranks 2y ago
That's chilling. I always thought HN as a kinda level-headed corner of the internet.
- rozap 2y ago
  Easy to think that until you start viewing /active and see all the stuff that's flagged and doesn't appear on the front page. Any article, even those explicitly about tech, science and academia are flagged if they have even the gentlest suggestion that this administration is flawed.
- deckard1 2y ago
  It pretends to be. But in reality it's always been a VC honey pot. I've stopped commenting here. I've made it a personal rule to only speak out against this tyranny and never talk about tech fluff, which is 100% of the front page of HN. I don't give two solid fucks about SQLite when the US government is throwing people in death camps in El Salvador. This site is straight tech bro fascism. People are finally realizing that Elon isn't the guy his PR team created. He's not Tony Stark.
  - archagon 2y ago
    I wish there was a similarly active community for hackers in the traditional sense.

leotravis10 2y ago

It's censorship plain and simple. And the admins/mods are still refusing to admit it.

zzleeper 2y ago
You really don't need many users to flag a post. Get five users constantly flagging anything that makes Trump look bad (and a complicit mod that doesn't undo this) and that's all you need.
pjc50 2y ago
sigh it's just how any site with algorithmic ranking works: some things are going to get down voted. Politics is one of them, for a bunch of reasons articulated in this thread. Complaining about censorship is not going to make any difference. Things have stabilized on roughly one thread on the evils of Republicans per day. Unfortunately they're managing a lot more evil per day than that.

bmacho 2y ago

> Or are there actual DOGE sympathies within the HN population? AFAIK a small number of them is enough to hide stuff from the front page. I don't know why is this the case, honestly I don't see any benefit over full time-moderators hiding problematic stuff, only negatives. Like why should a small political group be able to distort the news on the front page?

rbanffy 2y ago

> too "political" for tech news? Politics are everywhere. It’s how we negotiate consensus and make collective decisions. From what a government should do down to what features will be worked on this sprint and where are we having lunch today. Tech being apolitical is an illusion, and a very dangerous one.