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given my comment got railroaded instantly, this is clearly what everyone thinks, but let's at least have that conversation rather than blindly pumping money int

given my comment got railroaded instantly, this is clearly what everyone thinks, but let's at least have that conversation rather than blindly pumping money into academia while local schools can't even afford books

ceejayoz 2y ago
The people who want to hurt Harvard also want to hurt the local schools.
- repeekad 2y ago
  this is identity politics, rather than discussing ideas we discuss whose ideas they are and whether we like that person, I don't like that kind of discourse and don't find it valuable, bad people can have good ideas and vice versa edit: that being said, I agree what's happening to harvard is in bad faith and has nothing to do with making the government more efficient, so my argument isn't good
  - TimorousBestie 2y ago
    It’s not identity politics to observe that the dilemma you presented (public funding for universities xor local schools) is false.
  - roughly 2y ago
    When the guy lifting your TV starts quoting Marx at you, it's not actually an invitation to engage in philosophical discourse, and no amount of sound economic reasoning is getting your TV back. The Trump administration is not, has not, and will not be arguing in good faith. Stop pretending we're working collaboratively towards a shared future - they're either stealing your television or stealing your neighbor's television, and attempts to interrogate the merits of their television relocation policy aren't shedding any actual light to the situation.
  - repeekad 2y ago
    @TimorousBestie (I can't reply inline due to comment depth) I didn't say fund harvard xor fund local schools, I said it's crazy how much money harvard gets. The comment I'm replying to is who implies I must support harvard funding xor I must support trump, "the people who want to hurt harvard", I don't think that's true. I'm allowed to think federal funds for academia are too high and also think Trump is bad for the country
    - matwood 2y ago
      > I said it's crazy how much money harvard gets A place that has all the facilities, faculty and pedigree to pull some of the best researchers from all over the world. It's in fact crazy that Harvard, or any R1 university, wouldn't get a large amount of research dollars from the federal government.
      - repeekad 2y ago
        Sure, but you can understand the perspective of someone growing up with zero access to those resources and lives in a rural part of the country hearing your argument and then voting for someone like trump, I would argue that sentiment is one of the forces driving regular people away from democrats and lost them the election in 2024, it is an "ivory tower" perspective and regular americans don't buy it (even if it's true that harvard is a great investment for public money)
        matwood 2y ago
        I agree the democrats have terrible messaging, but what would really help 'regular' Americans is universal healthcare, free education, and maybe even UBI. As departments get DOGE'd a lot of 'regular' Americans are starting to find out where a lot of federal money goes, to those rural parts of the country. And let's be honest. The force 'driving people away from the democrats' is the propaganda network known as Fox News.
jdlshore 2y ago
You seem to be missing the point that federal research grants are not gifts, but instead paying for a service.
neaden 2y ago
We can have a discussion on if the money we spend is worth it sure. That's not what's happening now, Trumps not asking if this is the best way to fund research, he's demanding Harvard ban masks and punish students for engaging in political behavior he doesn't like. You're bringing up an entirely separate issue.
guax 2y ago
No need for that. There is more than enough money being funnelled into defense to fund Harvard + everything else you can think of and still have the largest defense spending in the world. Arguing that Harvard gets too much while ignoring 99% of the budget is not a reasonable stance.
- gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
  This is a logical fallacy of whataboutism. It is perfectly possible to say that the DOD gets too much money as does Harvard.
  - guax 2y ago
    I would agree if it was not a response to a similar argument about pumping money into alternative. So its consistent to that.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
linktraveler 2y ago
even partially agreeing with anything the trump administration does on this forum makes you a target for downvotes. let me cred fall. idgaDANG
- repeekad 2y ago
  you say as your comment about downvotes gets downvoted, echo chambers are dangerous to democracy imo
UncleMeat 2y ago
Is there any evidence that we've been "blindly" pumping money into academia? Funding agencies are part of the federal budget and don't just get everything they ask for. Then those agencies have all sorts of review procedures for choosing grant awardees. There isn't just some big slush fund labeled "dumb science ideas" that everybody grabs from.
nineplay 2y ago
I promise you right now that no one in the Trump administration is interested into providing more books to local schools. Quite the opposite
__loam 2y ago
Massachusetts has some of the best public schools in the nation.
javiramos 2y ago
I invite you to write or read a proposal for a multi $M grant before saying that money is being blindly pumped.
matwood 2y ago
First, it's not blind. These big universities are where a ton of research happens. It makes sense that research dollars will end up there. Second, I agree that local schools (I guess you mean K-12?) should get more money. DOGE is busy cutting that also.
nathan_compton 2y ago
If you are looking for someone to take this money and redirect it to local schools I have some bad news for you.

ceejayoz 2y ago

The people who want to hurt Harvard also want to hurt the local schools.

repeekad 2y ago
this is identity politics, rather than discussing ideas we discuss whose ideas they are and whether we like that person, I don't like that kind of discourse and don't find it valuable, bad people can have good ideas and vice versa edit: that being said, I agree what's happening to harvard is in bad faith and has nothing to do with making the government more efficient, so my argument isn't good
- TimorousBestie 2y ago
  It’s not identity politics to observe that the dilemma you presented (public funding for universities xor local schools) is false.
- roughly 2y ago
  When the guy lifting your TV starts quoting Marx at you, it's not actually an invitation to engage in philosophical discourse, and no amount of sound economic reasoning is getting your TV back. The Trump administration is not, has not, and will not be arguing in good faith. Stop pretending we're working collaboratively towards a shared future - they're either stealing your television or stealing your neighbor's television, and attempts to interrogate the merits of their television relocation policy aren't shedding any actual light to the situation.
- repeekad 2y ago
  @TimorousBestie (I can't reply inline due to comment depth) I didn't say fund harvard xor fund local schools, I said it's crazy how much money harvard gets. The comment I'm replying to is who implies I must support harvard funding xor I must support trump, "the people who want to hurt harvard", I don't think that's true. I'm allowed to think federal funds for academia are too high and also think Trump is bad for the country
  - matwood 2y ago
    > I said it's crazy how much money harvard gets A place that has all the facilities, faculty and pedigree to pull some of the best researchers from all over the world. It's in fact crazy that Harvard, or any R1 university, wouldn't get a large amount of research dollars from the federal government.
    - repeekad 2y ago
      Sure, but you can understand the perspective of someone growing up with zero access to those resources and lives in a rural part of the country hearing your argument and then voting for someone like trump, I would argue that sentiment is one of the forces driving regular people away from democrats and lost them the election in 2024, it is an "ivory tower" perspective and regular americans don't buy it (even if it's true that harvard is a great investment for public money)
      - matwood 2y ago
        I agree the democrats have terrible messaging, but what would really help 'regular' Americans is universal healthcare, free education, and maybe even UBI. As departments get DOGE'd a lot of 'regular' Americans are starting to find out where a lot of federal money goes, to those rural parts of the country. And let's be honest. The force 'driving people away from the democrats' is the propaganda network known as Fox News.

jdlshore 2y ago

You seem to be missing the point that federal research grants are not gifts, but instead paying for a service.

neaden 2y ago

We can have a discussion on if the money we spend is worth it sure. That's not what's happening now, Trumps not asking if this is the best way to fund research, he's demanding Harvard ban masks and punish students for engaging in political behavior he doesn't like. You're bringing up an entirely separate issue.

guax 2y ago

No need for that. There is more than enough money being funnelled into defense to fund Harvard + everything else you can think of and still have the largest defense spending in the world. Arguing that Harvard gets too much while ignoring 99% of the budget is not a reasonable stance.

gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
This is a logical fallacy of whataboutism. It is perfectly possible to say that the DOD gets too much money as does Harvard.
- guax 2y ago
  I would agree if it was not a response to a similar argument about pumping money into alternative. So its consistent to that.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

linktraveler 2y ago

even partially agreeing with anything the trump administration does on this forum makes you a target for downvotes. let me cred fall. idgaDANG

repeekad 2y ago
you say as your comment about downvotes gets downvoted, echo chambers are dangerous to democracy imo

UncleMeat 2y ago

Is there any evidence that we've been "blindly" pumping money into academia? Funding agencies are part of the federal budget and don't just get everything they ask for. Then those agencies have all sorts of review procedures for choosing grant awardees. There isn't just some big slush fund labeled "dumb science ideas" that everybody grabs from.

nineplay 2y ago

I promise you right now that no one in the Trump administration is interested into providing more books to local schools. Quite the opposite

__loam 2y ago

Massachusetts has some of the best public schools in the nation.

javiramos 2y ago

I invite you to write or read a proposal for a multi $M grant before saying that money is being blindly pumped.

matwood 2y ago

First, it's not blind. These big universities are where a ton of research happens. It makes sense that research dollars will end up there. Second, I agree that local schools (I guess you mean K-12?) should get more money. DOGE is busy cutting that also.

nathan_compton 2y ago

If you are looking for someone to take this money and redirect it to local schools I have some bad news for you.