4 ms·

Are the demographics of gun sales going to suddenly shift dramatically? We are evidently deep into 'tree of liberty' stuff. We have been the most well-armed n

by mapt 2y ago

Are the demographics of gun sales going to suddenly shift dramatically? We are evidently deep into 'tree of liberty' stuff. We have been the most well-armed nation in the world for less actual material reason than most countries in the world have ever had. Not being disappeared into a concentration camp indefinitely seems like a justification for lots of people to go down fighting.

alabastervlog 2y ago
Nobody's rising up unless the economy collapses to a significant degree, at which point everyone will.
- mapt 2y ago
  I'm not expecting the average German to rise up against Hitler. Unfortunately. But the average German Jew? Maybe they have more incentive to be prepared? If guns are readily available? This isn't in the category of "to save their life, they started carrying weapons". This is in the category of collective defense - "To provide a deterrent, they started carrying weapons, just to make their abduction/murder costly". It doesn't make sense (for most) to sacrifice their lives just for their residency - getting deported is not the end of the world. But if the result is "You get thrown into a torture/slave/deathcamp and forgotten for the rest of your short life", that changes the calculus a great deal.
  - tastyface 2y ago
    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” -Alexander Solzhenytsin
    - mapt 2y ago
      Ain't but 20,000 police in the whole town. Can you dig it? - Cyrus
dfxm12 2y ago
The thing is, immigrants as a whole are less likely to commit crime than American citizens. If the administration was actually targeting violent criminals, I don't think there would be such outcry. However, there just aren't enough people like that to move the needle, so the bulk of people getting caught up in this are people who are just living their lives and trying to get by, i.e. soft targets that the governments knows can't put up much of a fight.
- matwood 2y ago
  > immigrants as a whole are less likely to commit crime than American citizens They are more likely to be victims of crime because they often can't/won't go to the police. https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/latinx-immigrant-crime-victims-fear-seeking-help https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/latinx-immigrant-crime-vict...
- kyleee 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - mapt 2y ago
    WP: (2019) "In March 2019, Prince George's County, Maryland, police arrested Abrego Garcia with three other men in a Home Depot parking lot where they were seeking work as day laborers.[2][8] One of the men claimed Abrego Garcia was a "gang member," but The Atlantic reported that according to court filings, the man offered no proof and police said they did not believe him.[8] Abrego Garcia was never charged with a crime in connection to his arrest.[20]" "Police handed custody of Abrego Garcia over to ICE for deportation proceedings. In those proceedings, the government claimed that he was a member of the MS-13 criminal gang because "he was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie" and a confidential informant claimed that he was active with an MS-13 group based in New York,[2] where he has never lived. [15] An immigration judge determined that the informant's claim[21] was sufficient evidence for denying Abrego Garcia’s bond request, and another judge upheld that ruling, saying the claim that Abrego Garcia was in MS-13 for purposes of the bond determination was not clearly wrong.[19] However, no court has ever “full adjudicat[ed]” this issue.[19] Abrego Garcia has consistently denied any connection to MS-13.[22]" (2025) "On April 5, the Department of Justice appealed the ruling to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit.[39] The following day, Judge Xinis issued a 22-page opinion reaffirming her previous ruling. The opinion stated the deportation "shocks the conscience" and was "wholly lawless."[35] She also said that while there were previous assertions that Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13, the government has presented "no evidence" Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13 and had essentially abandoned that argument in her court.[35] The judge noted that while the government had presented no evidence that Abrego Garcia was a member of a gang, by publicly labeling him a member of MS-13, the government had placed Abrego Garcia at risk in the detention facility because El Salvador "intentionally mixes rival gang members" in the facility.[35] Xinis stated in her opinion: "Defendants seized Abrego Garcia without any lawful authority; held him in three separate domestic detention centers without legal basis; failed to present him to any immigration judge or officer; and forcibly transported him to El Salvador in direct contravention of [immigration law]."[35] " The random accusation that he was in MS-13 despite committing no crimes, that this warranted deportation despite entering no immigration courts, that it did not just warrant deportation but a proprietary black site torture camp, is identically as valid as the accusation I am making right now that you are a member of MS-13 because of the clothes you're wearing right now (which are Known To Be Worn By MS-13 Members), and must be disappeared by the authorities immediately. You have no opportunity to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're not a 'terrorist'; It is to be stipulated.

by mapt 2y ago

alabastervlog 2y ago

Nobody's rising up unless the economy collapses to a significant degree, at which point everyone will.

mapt 2y ago
I'm not expecting the average German to rise up against Hitler. Unfortunately. But the average German Jew? Maybe they have more incentive to be prepared? If guns are readily available? This isn't in the category of "to save their life, they started carrying weapons". This is in the category of collective defense - "To provide a deterrent, they started carrying weapons, just to make their abduction/murder costly". It doesn't make sense (for most) to sacrifice their lives just for their residency - getting deported is not the end of the world. But if the result is "You get thrown into a torture/slave/deathcamp and forgotten for the rest of your short life", that changes the calculus a great deal.
- tastyface 2y ago
  “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” -Alexander Solzhenytsin
  - mapt 2y ago
    Ain't but 20,000 police in the whole town. Can you dig it? - Cyrus

dfxm12 2y ago

The thing is, immigrants as a whole are less likely to commit crime than American citizens. If the administration was actually targeting violent criminals, I don't think there would be such outcry. However, there just aren't enough people like that to move the needle, so the bulk of people getting caught up in this are people who are just living their lives and trying to get by, i.e. soft targets that the governments knows can't put up much of a fight.

matwood 2y ago
> immigrants as a whole are less likely to commit crime than American citizens They are more likely to be victims of crime because they often can't/won't go to the police. https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/latinx-immigrant-crime-victims-fear-seeking-help https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/latinx-immigrant-crime-vict...
kyleee 2y ago
[flagged]
- mapt 2y ago
  WP: (2019) "In March 2019, Prince George's County, Maryland, police arrested Abrego Garcia with three other men in a Home Depot parking lot where they were seeking work as day laborers.[2][8] One of the men claimed Abrego Garcia was a "gang member," but The Atlantic reported that according to court filings, the man offered no proof and police said they did not believe him.[8] Abrego Garcia was never charged with a crime in connection to his arrest.[20]" "Police handed custody of Abrego Garcia over to ICE for deportation proceedings. In those proceedings, the government claimed that he was a member of the MS-13 criminal gang because "he was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie" and a confidential informant claimed that he was active with an MS-13 group based in New York,[2] where he has never lived. [15] An immigration judge determined that the informant's claim[21] was sufficient evidence for denying Abrego Garcia’s bond request, and another judge upheld that ruling, saying the claim that Abrego Garcia was in MS-13 for purposes of the bond determination was not clearly wrong.[19] However, no court has ever “full adjudicat[ed]” this issue.[19] Abrego Garcia has consistently denied any connection to MS-13.[22]" (2025) "On April 5, the Department of Justice appealed the ruling to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit.[39] The following day, Judge Xinis issued a 22-page opinion reaffirming her previous ruling. The opinion stated the deportation "shocks the conscience" and was "wholly lawless."[35] She also said that while there were previous assertions that Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13, the government has presented "no evidence" Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13 and had essentially abandoned that argument in her court.[35] The judge noted that while the government had presented no evidence that Abrego Garcia was a member of a gang, by publicly labeling him a member of MS-13, the government had placed Abrego Garcia at risk in the detention facility because El Salvador "intentionally mixes rival gang members" in the facility.[35] Xinis stated in her opinion: "Defendants seized Abrego Garcia without any lawful authority; held him in three separate domestic detention centers without legal basis; failed to present him to any immigration judge or officer; and forcibly transported him to El Salvador in direct contravention of [immigration law]."[35] " The random accusation that he was in MS-13 despite committing no crimes, that this warranted deportation despite entering no immigration courts, that it did not just warrant deportation but a proprietary black site torture camp, is identically as valid as the accusation I am making right now that you are a member of MS-13 because of the clothes you're wearing right now (which are Known To Be Worn By MS-13 Members), and must be disappeared by the authorities immediately. You have no opportunity to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're not a 'terrorist'; It is to be stipulated.