4 ms·

Australian academics refuse to attend US conferences for fear of being detained

35 points by KnuthIsGod 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
computerthings 2y ago
[dead]
nathanaldensr 2y ago
[flagged]
cadamsdotcom 2y ago
First-order effects are bad, but second and third order are going to be amazing. If people don't want to cross borders to come together, there'll be more hybrid conferences. More hybrid conferences will spur development of more remote-presence technology. And more remote-presence technology will allow inclusion of people who can't travel for financial, mobility, or even family reasons. In other words, this will lead to more participation in human progress by more people from more countries with socioeconomic status as less of a barrier.
- MattPalmer1086 2y ago
  It's only the US people are particularly afraid of visiting. More likely international events are just arranged outside the US. I've already seen that starting to happen.
BLKNSLVR 2y ago
To attempt to be somewhat balanced in reacting to this, the article is, as it states in the title, about "fear of being detained", it's not about actually being detained. As some people point out, what makes the news is the exceptions, not the norms. I'd like to know some statistics around the frequency of being questioned, detained, deported from the last few years, to the last month, two months, three months. What characteristics can be sliced up in different ways to determine what, if any, emerging patterns are? However, perception is reality, so even if nothing has actually changed in behaviour of border security, the media messaging has definitely changed which already seems to be causing a slowing down of international travellers coming to the US - there was a good article about that on the front page of HN not long ago.
- anenefan 2y ago
  I would surmise it's more fear of wasting money and time on a plane (approx 13 - 16 hours at min cost of $2000 aud for a specific flight time,) only to be turned back at the US border. I mostly agree with your sentiments, that not much has changed, there's been plenty of horror stories pre 2015 in regard to being pulled aside and sent back, misunderstandings perhaps but ... Last couple of months I'd say there's a stark difference, there seems to be numerous media stores with a definite focus that it doesn't take much to be knocked back, and a few came down to simply having a record of being critical of Trump. eg. Alvin Gibbs (UK Subs) account of it which IMO sounds pretty straight up.[1] Of course there's probably more than a few media beat ups where one would guess there's probably a bit more to the story but if so it's pretty quiet and perhaps perceived as an unwillingness for US authorities to comment. [1] https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-usa/ https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-us...
  - Arnt 2y ago
    If you have two rejection stamps in your passport, that's a real problem for any future visa application. If you have one rejection stamp, you're only one stamp away from a Problem.
  - freitasm 2y ago
    I think it is the fear of being detained instead of just put on a flight back. There were a few documented events like this in the last few weeks.
- piva00 2y ago
  > As some people point out, what makes the news is the exceptions, not the norms. There are also the cases that never make the news. For example: last Friday I went to a friend's PhD defense in Stockholm, during the party/dinner after one of his supervisors was telling us the story where she got detained by CBP in her last visit in March. She is a Finnish professor, with a J1 visa, with a part-time position in an American university, she was detained and deported because the CBP agent didn't like she said she was coming into the US for work-related matters. This never made the news or anything, she was quietly disposed of after being in "custody" for a few hours. Her takeaway was simply she would give up this part-time work helping some American PhD students, she didn't need the money and the stress and time wasted was too much. How many more of these cases exist? We will never know.
jgyter 2y ago
[flagged]
- drekk 2y ago
  Tourism into the US is also down in general. You can disparage this particular academic all you want, but unfortunately when you start deporting foreign nationals with valid visas you don't get to pick and choose the second and third-order effects. It's not just academics—and not just the academics you personally find silly—that are choosing to not visit the US.
  - Arnt 2y ago
    +1 There's someone at my employer's travel agent who keeps her ear close to the ground and hears a lot of things. The companies who act as secretariats for conferences hear about things and spread the news, too. Neither of them ignore or disparage particular groups of travellers.
- orwin 2y ago
  This reaction is why my friends stopped going to the US[0]. I mean, French do have their smug people too (we even have a saying: 'il pète plus haut que son cul'), but very rarely those as derogatory as USians. [0] before Trump 2.
- watwut 2y ago
  > Where would we be without a thorough understanding of diverse trans psychiatric history? You write about this as if there was something wrong with study of psychiatric care for trans people or for non-whites. Trans have above average suicide rates, they have own specific issues. It 100% makes sense to study it. That large parts of population actively want them to suffer does not mean psychiatry should not study those.
josefritzishere 2y ago
The effects here are chilling for America. Fewer academics, fewer internaional students, a decline in the quality of education, less revenue from those students and tourists... There is just no upside here.

35 points by KnuthIsGod 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

computerthings 2y ago

[dead]

nathanaldensr 2y ago

[flagged]

cadamsdotcom 2y ago

First-order effects are bad, but second and third order are going to be amazing. If people don't want to cross borders to come together, there'll be more hybrid conferences. More hybrid conferences will spur development of more remote-presence technology. And more remote-presence technology will allow inclusion of people who can't travel for financial, mobility, or even family reasons. In other words, this will lead to more participation in human progress by more people from more countries with socioeconomic status as less of a barrier.

MattPalmer1086 2y ago
It's only the US people are particularly afraid of visiting. More likely international events are just arranged outside the US. I've already seen that starting to happen.

BLKNSLVR 2y ago

To attempt to be somewhat balanced in reacting to this, the article is, as it states in the title, about "fear of being detained", it's not about actually being detained. As some people point out, what makes the news is the exceptions, not the norms. I'd like to know some statistics around the frequency of being questioned, detained, deported from the last few years, to the last month, two months, three months. What characteristics can be sliced up in different ways to determine what, if any, emerging patterns are? However, perception is reality, so even if nothing has actually changed in behaviour of border security, the media messaging has definitely changed which already seems to be causing a slowing down of international travellers coming to the US - there was a good article about that on the front page of HN not long ago.

anenefan 2y ago
I would surmise it's more fear of wasting money and time on a plane (approx 13 - 16 hours at min cost of $2000 aud for a specific flight time,) only to be turned back at the US border. I mostly agree with your sentiments, that not much has changed, there's been plenty of horror stories pre 2015 in regard to being pulled aside and sent back, misunderstandings perhaps but ... Last couple of months I'd say there's a stark difference, there seems to be numerous media stores with a definite focus that it doesn't take much to be knocked back, and a few came down to simply having a record of being critical of Trump. eg. Alvin Gibbs (UK Subs) account of it which IMO sounds pretty straight up.[1] Of course there's probably more than a few media beat ups where one would guess there's probably a bit more to the story but if so it's pretty quiet and perhaps perceived as an unwillingness for US authorities to comment. [1] https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-usa/ https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-us...
- Arnt 2y ago
  If you have two rejection stamps in your passport, that's a real problem for any future visa application. If you have one rejection stamp, you're only one stamp away from a Problem.
- freitasm 2y ago
  I think it is the fear of being detained instead of just put on a flight back. There were a few documented events like this in the last few weeks.
piva00 2y ago
> As some people point out, what makes the news is the exceptions, not the norms. There are also the cases that never make the news. For example: last Friday I went to a friend's PhD defense in Stockholm, during the party/dinner after one of his supervisors was telling us the story where she got detained by CBP in her last visit in March. She is a Finnish professor, with a J1 visa, with a part-time position in an American university, she was detained and deported because the CBP agent didn't like she said she was coming into the US for work-related matters. This never made the news or anything, she was quietly disposed of after being in "custody" for a few hours. Her takeaway was simply she would give up this part-time work helping some American PhD students, she didn't need the money and the stress and time wasted was too much. How many more of these cases exist? We will never know.

jgyter 2y ago

[flagged]

drekk 2y ago
Tourism into the US is also down in general. You can disparage this particular academic all you want, but unfortunately when you start deporting foreign nationals with valid visas you don't get to pick and choose the second and third-order effects. It's not just academics—and not just the academics you personally find silly—that are choosing to not visit the US.
- Arnt 2y ago
  +1 There's someone at my employer's travel agent who keeps her ear close to the ground and hears a lot of things. The companies who act as secretariats for conferences hear about things and spread the news, too. Neither of them ignore or disparage particular groups of travellers.
orwin 2y ago
This reaction is why my friends stopped going to the US[0]. I mean, French do have their smug people too (we even have a saying: 'il pète plus haut que son cul'), but very rarely those as derogatory as USians. [0] before Trump 2.
watwut 2y ago
> Where would we be without a thorough understanding of diverse trans psychiatric history? You write about this as if there was something wrong with study of psychiatric care for trans people or for non-whites. Trans have above average suicide rates, they have own specific issues. It 100% makes sense to study it. That large parts of population actively want them to suffer does not mean psychiatry should not study those.

josefritzishere 2y ago

The effects here are chilling for America. Fewer academics, fewer internaional students, a decline in the quality of education, less revenue from those students and tourists... There is just no upside here.