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I've been listening to Moomin audiobooks and reading some of the books to my wife in recent years, and I started to spot some of the more adult/darker subtext i

I've been listening to Moomin audiobooks and reading some of the books to my wife in recent years, and I started to spot some of the more adult/darker subtext in it (I'm still processing the one where the Moominpappa makes the entire family move to a lighthouse, and Moominmamma is desperately trying to cope with growing depression). Still, I have an answer for the author's conundrum, that's accurate for a significant fraction of the readerbase: > "One of the oddest aspects of the Moomin phenomenon is how these complex tales of apocalypse, breakdown and disfunction have been consistently misread as cutesy celebrations of domestic life." It's actually really simple. Here in Poland, myself and my entire generation grew up watching the children cartoon adaptation of the Moomins. It was cute, it was happy, it had nice art and music, it was suitable for small children but engaging even to older ones, and it was aired when all kids would be watching[0]. This was our generation's intro to the Moomins, and it colored how we read the books. I imagine the case is similar all across Europe. A whole generation primed to read these stories as positive and light-hearted, because of a TV adaptation. -- [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieczorynka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieczorynka - public TV (TVP1), every day at 19:00, just before the evening news slot. In times I grew up, watching this was pretty much a national tradition for any family with children.

thih9 2y ago
> It was cute, it was happy Many episodes had darker undertones as well, especially those with the Groke[1] or hattifatteners. Tvtropes has a list[2]. > The Groke was so horrifying in fact, that in Poland it caused a nation-wide fear in almost all children, some of which were even left traumatised for years, leading to some parents forbidding their children from watching Moomins, and some using the Groke as a Bogeyman to scare their children into good behavior. Any 90s or 2000s Polish kid will know how it felt. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groke https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groke [2]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/TheMoomins https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/TheMoom...
- krige 2y ago
  This is extremely exaggerated. The Groke is more of a meme here than some sort of night terror. Sure it had an impact and was memorable but there was no wave of traumatized kids spawned by it.
  - thih9 2y ago
    Maybe you watched a different cartoon, were not in that age group - or forgot? There are many more accounts of that: > The Groke has been widely considered one of the creepiest characters in fiction by many people and even by a study. In late 90's and early 2000's, when the 90's anime series - which is considered by many to have the scariest portrayal of the Groke in it - premiered in Poland, the Groke - known in Poland as Buka - caused a panic amongst Polish children. The Groke had different sounds - deep, eerie cold howls and moans preformed by voice actor Andrzej Bogusz. This, mixed with the darker colouring of the episodes (a trait shared with Finnish episodes and some other airings) and the fact that the Moomins were mostly played at night, in the Wieczorynka programming block caused the Groke to be widely considered one of the scariest childhood characters in Poland, both by 90's and early 2000's kids. > Many children were horrified by her, were scared to go to sleep because of her, having dreams of her chasing them or turning into the Groke (some examples of such dreams could be found on the myslalemże.pl portal before it got shut down around early 2010's). The defunct portal Grono.net even had an Anti-Groke forum called ANTY-BUKA, where people would share their childhood stories about the Groke. https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/The_Groke https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/The_Groke And even first person: > [google translate] How is it possible that a dark, buzzing figure can scare small children? Hey, I can't. As a child I was very afraid of it. Now I don't know why. When I talk to my peers (15 years old) they say they were afraid too. Why? https://www.filmweb.pl/serial/Muminki-1990-119826/discussion/Fenomen+Buki.+Te%C5%BC+si%C4%99+jej+bali%C5%9Bcie,425401 https://www.filmweb.pl/serial/Muminki-1990-119826/discussion...
    - krige 2y ago
      The filmweb discussion comment pointedly notes the author is not afraid of it now, and doesn't get why it was scary then. Several other comments also point out she looked lonely and less scary than the hattifnattar. Hardly the all-traumatizing experience.
i_hate_moomins 2y ago
Light hearted? Suitable for small children? Are you kidding me. I'm in my mid-30's and still remember nightmares those stupid series gave me when I was in kindergarten. It was X-Files-tier scary ("The X Files" being other show aired by polish TV around same time), masquarading behind cute animations. How can anyone in their right mind call the episode where the Moomintroll swaps bodies with Stinky lighthearted and positive? What about the collection of monsters like Groke or Hattifnats? On some occasion I remember my parents would call me to get out from my room to watch the "wieczorynka" and I would pretend I can't hear and come out only as I hear the outro song starting, just to avoid whatever insane plot the Moomins would bring on me that time. I hate Moomins so much and wish could erase it from existence. Calling it "cute and happy" is like saying candybar with razorblade inside is delicious; technically true but not exactly an accurate description.
- trhway 2y ago
  i wonder what you'd think about Brothers Grimm's tales :) And in general children folk tales in many countries do contain strong violence, cruelty, torture, etc. if you'd focus on those details.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    It’s amazing what you get if you read the originals.
  - adrianN 2y ago
    A lot of those stories try to teach children that going alone into the woods is a very bad idea. You have to read them in the historic context; don’t think they’re particularly suitable for modern children.
    - trhway 2y ago
      well, we may adapt them to what happens to the Red Hood when she crosses the road incorrectly and at the wrong place - not much different than meeting a hungry wolf. We may even add a video or two to spike the imagination and burn the lesson into the memory.

thih9 2y ago

> It was cute, it was happy Many episodes had darker undertones as well, especially those with the Groke[1] or hattifatteners. Tvtropes has a list[2]. > The Groke was so horrifying in fact, that in Poland it caused a nation-wide fear in almost all children, some of which were even left traumatised for years, leading to some parents forbidding their children from watching Moomins, and some using the Groke as a Bogeyman to scare their children into good behavior. Any 90s or 2000s Polish kid will know how it felt. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groke https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groke [2]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/TheMoomins https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/TheMoom...

krige 2y ago
This is extremely exaggerated. The Groke is more of a meme here than some sort of night terror. Sure it had an impact and was memorable but there was no wave of traumatized kids spawned by it.
- thih9 2y ago
  Maybe you watched a different cartoon, were not in that age group - or forgot? There are many more accounts of that: > The Groke has been widely considered one of the creepiest characters in fiction by many people and even by a study. In late 90's and early 2000's, when the 90's anime series - which is considered by many to have the scariest portrayal of the Groke in it - premiered in Poland, the Groke - known in Poland as Buka - caused a panic amongst Polish children. The Groke had different sounds - deep, eerie cold howls and moans preformed by voice actor Andrzej Bogusz. This, mixed with the darker colouring of the episodes (a trait shared with Finnish episodes and some other airings) and the fact that the Moomins were mostly played at night, in the Wieczorynka programming block caused the Groke to be widely considered one of the scariest childhood characters in Poland, both by 90's and early 2000's kids. > Many children were horrified by her, were scared to go to sleep because of her, having dreams of her chasing them or turning into the Groke (some examples of such dreams could be found on the myslalemże.pl portal before it got shut down around early 2010's). The defunct portal Grono.net even had an Anti-Groke forum called ANTY-BUKA, where people would share their childhood stories about the Groke. https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/The_Groke https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/The_Groke And even first person: > [google translate] How is it possible that a dark, buzzing figure can scare small children? Hey, I can't. As a child I was very afraid of it. Now I don't know why. When I talk to my peers (15 years old) they say they were afraid too. Why? https://www.filmweb.pl/serial/Muminki-1990-119826/discussion/Fenomen+Buki.+Te%C5%BC+si%C4%99+jej+bali%C5%9Bcie,425401 https://www.filmweb.pl/serial/Muminki-1990-119826/discussion...
  - krige 2y ago
    The filmweb discussion comment pointedly notes the author is not afraid of it now, and doesn't get why it was scary then. Several other comments also point out she looked lonely and less scary than the hattifnattar. Hardly the all-traumatizing experience.

i_hate_moomins 2y ago

Light hearted? Suitable for small children? Are you kidding me. I'm in my mid-30's and still remember nightmares those stupid series gave me when I was in kindergarten. It was X-Files-tier scary ("The X Files" being other show aired by polish TV around same time), masquarading behind cute animations. How can anyone in their right mind call the episode where the Moomintroll swaps bodies with Stinky lighthearted and positive? What about the collection of monsters like Groke or Hattifnats? On some occasion I remember my parents would call me to get out from my room to watch the "wieczorynka" and I would pretend I can't hear and come out only as I hear the outro song starting, just to avoid whatever insane plot the Moomins would bring on me that time. I hate Moomins so much and wish could erase it from existence. Calling it "cute and happy" is like saying candybar with razorblade inside is delicious; technically true but not exactly an accurate description.

trhway 2y ago
i wonder what you'd think about Brothers Grimm's tales :) And in general children folk tales in many countries do contain strong violence, cruelty, torture, etc. if you'd focus on those details.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  It’s amazing what you get if you read the originals.
- adrianN 2y ago
  A lot of those stories try to teach children that going alone into the woods is a very bad idea. You have to read them in the historic context; don’t think they’re particularly suitable for modern children.
  - trhway 2y ago
    well, we may adapt them to what happens to the Red Hood when she crosses the road incorrectly and at the wrong place - not much different than meeting a hungry wolf. We may even add a video or two to spike the imagination and burn the lesson into the memory.