8 ms·
"Adulting" courses in America
- helsinkiandrew 2y agohttps://archive.ph/D4k9U https://archive.ph/D4k9U
- bslanej 2y ago> He and his cohort had to decide which health-insurance plan to choose, how much of his salary to devote to saving for retirement and other financial details. “Every one of us went out into the hallway and called our parents,” he admits. “We were graduates of really elite schools, and we still didn’t know what to do.” That’s not because you are a child or an idiot. It’s because you know your parents have EXPERIENCE, and that is something you will never acquire from a course.
- uniqueuid 2y agoI find experience to be a bad explanation here, because a course can absolutely teach you all these things that are discussed in the article. Sewing? The course will explain and show you, after which you gain experience by practice. Making financial decisions? This rests a lot on knowing facts about how financials work, and a course is absolutely one correct way of learning those. For experience, I'd rather think of things like - how do you cope with the death of a loved one? How do you decide who to be or what to do? How do you manage your emotions, streghts and weaknesses?
- melagonster 2y agoSome experiments are not replaceable. People need somebody to promise that "it will be ok".
- Hizonner 2y agoIt doesn't matter whether that person is right or has a clue themselves?
- melagonster 2y agoUnfortunately not. Perhaps because the result is too important, someone want to trust people they are familiar with only.
- jon_richards 2y agoNot to mention the (now experienced) graduates of really elite schools on the other side of the adversarial relationship, working for those financial institutions.
- rwmj 2y agoMy parents had a defined benefit (final salary) pension organized by their employer, of the kind that no longer exists. They didn't have to choose how much to save. My father knows how to fix 1980s era cars, but 2020s cars have software that makes them impossible for anyone except a dealer to fix (or even for the dealer in some cases).
- kowabungalow 2y agoThe world changes so parental advice may need some adaptation, but the general idea is that they show their child when they make decisions. This may have been more about what job they took for what pension it came with and what car they bought for which labor price and now it is which car to never buy. This kind of thread bothers me with it's hand wringing. Parents and teachers often spoke of their lives in casual conversation when I was growing up and it was pretty clear to me that, aside from it being a response to having no adult around to make a more useful conversation with for them, there was an element of educational intent.
- puzzledobserver 2y agoIt's also because making some of these decisions (choosing health insurance, deciding how much to save, etc.) involve two considerations---the first being purely analytic (mundane cost vs. probability of contracting major disease vs. cost of catastrophe) and the other being necessarily extra-analytic (how risk averse the individual is). One can objectively reason through the first set of considerations, while the second involves a subjective element and is likely heavily influenced by their upbringing and life experiences. Nobody knows how much to save or how much to spend on insurance. It's completely reasonable to seek advice, and one's parents might be a great starting point.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- begueradj 2y agoIt's a matter of trust, not experience.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Hizonner 2y agoYour parents have had one shot at deciding how to save for retirement, at one time. They've had an extremely limited number of shots at choosing health plans. Maybe they have a couple of friends with weird, memorable stories about those things... probably memorable because they're outliers. Their experience is approximately useless. ... whereas there's a huge amount of well-supported expert advice out there. You don't even need to take a course. Search the damned Internet. ... and don't give me any "cocky youth" bullshit. I'm old enough to be the parent of a large fraction of people on Hacker News.
- eesmith 2y ago> The world is more complex than it was a couple of generations ago. But is it, really? That was already the era of "information overload" and "future shock."
- uniqueuid 2y agoSociological theory says yes, the world is a lot more (=superlinearly) complex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_modernization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_modernization
- ranit 2y agoThe changes in society are accelerating and thus people cannot adapt fast enough. The society doesn’t necessarily become more complex.
- maccard 2y agoThat is quite the Wikipedia article. It’s not often that I diss content, but if there was ever a summary of a topic written that tried to sound like it was a novel idea by labelling everything under the sun, this is it. Maybe I’m not smart enough to understand it, but honestly after 4 tries I still don’t get what the point is. Also, the topic of “reflexive” came about in the early to mid 20th century, so for many people here, our parents have always existed in this reflexive modern. That doesn’t mean things have gotten more complex in the last generation
- uniqueuid 2y agoHaha sorry, I understand that reaction to quite a lot of sociological theory. Personally I find this the easiest simple mental model for reflexive modernity: "Modernity linearly accelerated change. Reflexive modernity loops back on itself and accelerates the acceleration". So a bit of "singularity is near". The whole theory itself has quite a bit more baggage, but again I agree, the wikipedia article does not help at all. https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-89201-2 https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-89201-2
- tiahura 2y agoThe counterculture advocated infantilizing children. And, once again, dire consequences from the counterculture approach.
- pnut 2y ago[flagged]
- kubb 2y agoThis looks like a “make senior folks feel good” article. I get that there’s demand for that (aging society and what not). The headline says “too much”, but the article doesn’t quantify cluelessness in adults, instead presenting an anecdote. Presumably those who take the class… aren’t clueless anymore and others don’t need the class? Or maybe the problem is that people are naive enough to take the class in the first place because they can’t learn life skills this way?
- pydry 2y ago[flagged]
- Avshalom 2y agoJesus christ your just gonna be out and proud with your nazi shit huh?
- 1dom 2y agoI think this is a weird comment and I don't understand it. Care to explain it?
- Reubend 2y agopydry commented that The Economist is "is Rothschild owned", which is partially true but quite misleading. The Rothschilds are minority owners, but other investors have much more control over the company than they do. avshalom seems to have interpreted that as anti-Semitic. For what it's worth, I also interpreted the comment that way at first, but I think that it's best to assume good intent here, so in that spirit I would say that pydry probably just meant it to represent rich people rather than Jews.
- 1dom 2y agoThanks, I wasn't aware of the Jewish/antisemitic angle at all, but that's my own ignorance in that area. The "represents rich people" angle was the only interpretation I could see. Still not sure I fully understand why the conversation has gone in the Jewish/antisemite direction though, but again this is a topic I choose to remain ignorant on.
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- jen729w 2y agoI've been thinking about this a lot in the context of moving out of an old house that needs constant care. Will the next residents understand that the drip-watering system 'blows out' sometimes, and needs fixing? How did I understand that? I've never lived in a house with a drip-watering system. But I heard these noises (high-pitched weeeeeee! as the air gets pushed out of the line; sound of water through pipes even though I hadn't turned a tap on), I wondered what it was, I investigated, I figured out it was the watering system. And then one day those noises changed. Interesting. Investigate! Oh, one of the connectors has come loose. I should fix that. Next year, the drip-watering system just doesn't work. Nothing happens. I remember when it turned on I could hear the solenoid tapping in and out. Now, nothing. A bit of figuring out later and I realise it froze in winter. The tap was full of water, it closed its relay, night came, it froze, it expanded. Damn. I bought a new unit and now I drain it come late autumn. --- This plus one hundred other things. --- So can I tell all this to the incoming residents, whomever they might be? I thought to write a 'house manual'. Maybe knock up a little website. But, no. I can't. Because this is what we refer to as 'common sense'. Can I teach a stranger common sense? Alas. Invent a thing that can teach an adult common sense and there's your next unicorn.
- omnimus 2y agoMore custom setup more this happens. Every system has its quirks and hot fixes applied.
- jjav 2y ago> I thought to write a 'house manual'. Maybe knock up a little website. > But, no. I can't. Because this is what we refer to as 'common sense'. Can I teach a stranger common sense? Those hidden details about the house aren't really common sense. You know because you either set it up or had to figure it out. I have started writing a house manual because I've owned this house since before it was built and there are a lot of little details I know (like what's inside walls where and why, where buried pipes and utilities are, etc) that would take a lot of trial and error for someone else to figure out.
- 1dom 2y agoI think there's a personality type for old/high maintenance houses. Having said that, a first time buyer will always be a first time buyer, and a house will probably suffer initially whilst they learn the skills to support their purchase. This is what makes old houses a thing though: they're tough and built to tolerate a certain amount of stupidity - they wouldn't still be standing otherwise. I try to take notes about things I do to my old house that I don't hear my peers with newer houses talk about, and if I do sell this house, I probably would offer to share all the notes when the buyer picks up the keys. Notes are also beneficial for my partner and future me.
- Barrin92 2y ago>Compared with other countries, adults in America spend less time doing household chores such as mopping and ironing; I definitely noticed this with exchange students from the US a little more than a decade ago in uni. In Germany it's pretty common for 18 year old's to share an apartment in the city with one or two mates, you wash, you cook together, the drinking age is 16 etc. When we interacted with US students, a lot of them even a bit older got wasted like teens and threw up everywhere, couldn't operate a washing machine, couldn't cook a normal homemade meal and so on. I think the US college experience has a lot to do with this. Over here you live on your own and it's like a job, nobody cares if you show up, apparently in the US it's like an adult daycare almost. No wonder people in their mid 20s can't do chores.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rraghur 2y agoNot sure about specific ones here... But I feel financial basics should be a mandatory course before graduation... Maybe it is available as electives in other counties but here in India, fresh graduates are shockingly illiterate financially... Things to cover 1. Compound interest 2. Taxation 3. Insurance... Term/health 4. Asset classes... Equity /debt/real estate/gold/bonds and risk/reward 5. Evaluating investment plans/schemes
- RhysU 2y agoA watered down Series 7 would make for a great college class.
- gnulinux996 2y agoGod this publication is so over its head its absurd. The fact that they have shifted from talking about economics to telling us about skills we should have or which countries the "free world" deems democratic enough this week is unimpressive. This publication is nothing more than a pedestal to launch assaults on the average citizen. They expect average Joe to decide about his health insurance plan? Joe is not aware of half his bodily functions let alone make decisions based on assumptions of what might happen to him 40 years down the road. And he has to be an expert in litigation as well because you can bet the insurance company is going to fight him in every way. The fact that people are forced to transact is despicable. I am a firm believer that libertarian content must be outright banned in this platform with a domain ban certain publications this one being the first. /rant
- dingaling 2y ago> The fact that they have shifted from talking about economics ... You're a bit late complaining about that, they've been covering non-economics topics since about 1846 when the Corn Laws were abolished.
- presentation 2y agoSchools these days ought to bring back Home Economics classes.
- paweladamczuk 2y agoI think the most valid point is the one about assumming responsibility, like taking care of a family or owning property instead of renting. It's difficult and scary, and it's tempting to use the supposed equivalents the modern economy offers. I think we need to make an effort to explain to young people that along with responsibility comes independence and life satisfaction.
- watwut 2y agoI assure you that taking care of a family does not make you independent. Regardless of who the family member to care about is. I am quite pro "you should be helping family" and as such I am fully aware that caregivers are giving up quite a lot. And in particular, having kids makes you much more dependent and limited then whatever was your life before them. That goes for those who stayed at home and depend on partner for everything, those who are primary breadwinner focusing on work only and for those who juggle childcare with work. As for owning property instead of renting, that one is massively more influenced by whether you can afford to buy a property or rent. Renting requires much less money and that is all there is to it. Neither makes you more or less satisfied in life.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 2y agoYeah might be clueless but many of the how to topics are a youtube video away. I research before I do something and after that I can decide if I will touch it or not.
- zelse 2y ago"They are shrinking from responsibilities such as marriage, homeowning and child-rearing because “adulting is hard”, as one of his students put it. Western culture, Mr Hayward wrote, indulges childish fancies." Yes, it is surely that young people are just wusses and not that they're also much poorer than previous generations, which forces them to postpone things like marriage, child-rearing, and purchasing a home.
- ciconia 2y agoThey are also quite a bit more pampered and "protected" from the outside world, which arguably makes them spoiled and anxious.
- plsbenice34 2y agoInstead of 'pampered' i think the word should be 'neglected'. Some older people tend to use words like pampered to give the sense that the young people had it "too good" so now they deserve to suffer by not being independent, but that is rarely the case. There is nothing pleasant about a childhood spent in front of screens that leaves one anxious and lacking independence.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kkfx 2y agoI'm from EU, the situation of the whole population of circa ANY age is the very same: most do not know NOTHING about common life things. I start to see young who do not want to learn how to drive a car "because we have the metro", re-read not to OWN a car, but just knowing how to drive. Shoelaces start to disappear for crappy tourniquets because many do not know how to tie laces and no, such tourniquets are not quicker not better. It's not a positive evolution like from an ICE to and EV. Many do not know how to cook most basic dishes, they live buying ready-made food and so on. It's not better in generic culture: many do not know how to handle paper and write with a pen which is REASONABLE these days IF you know how to write on a computer and handle your files properly but no, that second part is not known as well. I know some PhDs who do not know how to manage their own info, even their libraries in Zotero and can't properly quote a damn email.
- OutOfHere 2y agoI see it as a drawback of a poorly structured society that one has to know these topics at all. In in ideal society, money would manage itself, people wouldn't have to dress differently for an interview, and shirts wouldn't tear or need ironing. Those with such skills have been strongly conditioned into thinking that their skills are the only way, when in reality they are the ones holding us back.
- Hizonner 2y agoWhat would be the right number of absolutely clueless adults?
- antisthenes 2y agoJust enough to keep the ruling class to be able to sway elections with them.
- watwut 2y agoThey seem to be the ones who pride themselves on being independent, real adults, salt of the earth and look down on supposedly overly dependent young people.
- disambiguation 2y ago>They are shrinking from responsibilities such as marriage, homeowning and child-rearing because “adulting is hard”, as one of his students put it. Western culture, Mr Hayward wrote, indulges childish fancies. Shrinking as in they are already homeowners and married with children, but not rising to the responsibility of it? Or shrinking as in not becoming a home owner, or getting married, or having children. If its the latter, could there possibly be some other explanation? >there has been a generational shift and that young people are less mature than their forebears were at the same age. Less employed, too.
- garof 2y agoThis was not about what I'd hoped it would be. Things like: how to realize when you do or do not have sufficient knowledge about something, or how to distinguish bs from non-bs, or how to recognizing when you really need to have situational awareness, or how to maintain proper perspective on things, how to keep calm and when not to, etc. The skills they mention in the article, budgeting and rejection and so forth, are also important. But there is a layer under that too.
- metalman 2y ago[flagged]
- qgin 2y agoAs someone who worked public-facing jobs for a long time, I can assure you that millennials are not any more clueless than previous generations. They have more self-awareness about what they don’t know and are more willing to joke about it (“adulting”) or ask for help (calling family members), whereas previous generations tend to handle something they don’t understand by faking it or getting mad at the person asking the question.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y agoAuthor's title: "Too many adults are absolutely clueless" Original HN title: "Too many adults are absolutely clueless"