7 ms·

>Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited wa

• whatshisface 2y ago
  You only feel safe to speak out against the violations of law if you feel safe from them.
  • ebcode 2y ago
    No. I speak out, and I don't feel safe. It takes courage.
    • djohnston 2y ago
      Your bravery is inspiring.
  • 20after4 2y ago
    It stopped being safe in the USA for anyone not currently popular with the administration. And anyone’s safe status can change on a whim.
• viraptor 2y ago
  > and our court system can rule against the current admin. That is more and more often not happening recently, because courts are not involved. If they are and explicitly request planes to be turned around and people brought back - they're ignored without repercussions.
  • marcosdumay 2y ago
    > without repercussions This part is not settled yet.
    • Braxton1980 2y ago
      How so? The plane didn't turn around, Trump still has numerous supporters so the public doesn't care, and none of his admin has been punished.
      • marcosdumay 2y ago
        Last time I saw, the entire Supreme Court was requesting that the Executive return people, what means punishment may be a couple of weeks away. It may not happen, but it's not a given right now.
        • Braxton1980 2y ago
          They requesting the government return oe person and they still haven't brought him back. It's not related to the plane that was supposed to turn around
        • ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
          who would execute the punishment for disobeying the supreme court?
        • zimpenfish 2y ago
          > Last time I saw, the entire Supreme Court was requesting that the Executive return people As I understand it, they requested that USGOV "facilitate" the return which is much weaker than the "effectuate" in the original court order; ie giving USGOV wiggle room rather than compelling them to undo the harm.
        • motoxpro 2y ago
          Looks like it is a "No" from them and a "All good" from us. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-meet-with-el-salvadors-president-amid-questions-over-deportations-2025-04-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-meet-with-el-salvador...
• cscurmudgeon 2y ago
  If you are talking about Khalil, he didn't just speak against Israel, it seems like his role in an org which openly supported Hamas may have played a part but didn't matter legally. The legal issue was that he left out facts on his green card application. I am 100% sure that support of terrorist orgs can invalidate your green card. https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-administration-claims-palestinian-activist-mahmoud-khalil-misrepresented/story?id=120108978 https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-administration-claims-palest... > According to recent court filings, President Donald Trump's administration said Khalil failed to disclose when applying for his green card last year that his employment by the Syria Office at the British Embassy in Beirut went "beyond 2022" and that he was a "political affairs officer" for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees from June to November 2023. > "Regardless of his allegations concerning political speech, Khalil withheld membership in certain organizations and failed to disclose continuing employment by the Syria Office in the British Embassy in Beirut when he submitted his adjustment of status application. It is black-letter law that misrepresentations in this context are not protected speech," the government said in the filing. Most of these things are not black/white. We should wait for all the facts to come out.
  • tehjoker 2y ago
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    • immibis 2y ago
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      • wqaatwt 2y ago
        > Do you condemn Hamas What’s the alternative? Regardless of what Israel did or did not do Hamas could have ended this “war” at any moment they wanted to. None of their actions were in any way remotely in the interest of the people of Gaza. Providing them [Hamas] material or other support only prolonged it..
• kurthr 2y ago
  Exactly, it's the "they're the same anyway", "both sides" equivalency that allows the buildup of antidemocratic de-politicization and apathy. This is one of the goals of the _there_is_no_truth_ radicalization that is fundamental to Russian political control
  • raverbashing 2y ago
    This exactly right here ^ But discussions on the internet seems to be with lots of people who have only a shallow understanding of the balances involved and low historical context
    • Braxton1980 2y ago
      Historical context has limited value. It doesn't matter what a political party did more than 10 years ago. Shallow understanding is a valid issue but that's what discussions are for
      • goatlover 2y ago
        It matters if the political party's tactics for taking over a democracy are being copied.
  • Retric 2y ago
    Ehh, I’ve got not particular stake in this conflict so it’s really interesting to see how each side is using propaganda and how obvious the propaganda is when you’re not emotionally invested. Each side is using different tactics to fit the strength of their positions and how well various messages resonate. “They are the same anyway” is useful for a side who wants people to be inactive, it’s not some universal benefit to both parties. Instead each side wants different people to be engaged vs apathetic, which hardly unusual.
    • baq 2y ago
      Both sides want their side engaged and the other apathetic. On a national level this means FSB employing hundreds if not thousands of people to troll political discourse in social media in the west to maximize the amount of ‘I don’t care anymore’ people. A very asymmetric setup exposing the underbelly of free speech cultures.
• mlindner 2y ago
  > Although not even close in number and punishment the US government is deporting people for speaking against Israel. You and I both know that isn't true and repeating that doesn't help anyone but further implant in people's minds that the other side is completely irrational and cannot be reasoned with. No, the US government is deporting people for supporting terrorist organizations, something that's always been a disqualifying position in US immigration law. You'll get your visa denied, or even your entry denied for holding such positions, let alone maintaining an active student visa or permanent resident visa. That has always been the case and simply enforcing laws already on the books does not change that. > What makes this possible to either the level of Russia or the US is how much the supporters of the regime want it. This is regardless of morality, legality, or the precedent it sets. Equating Russia and the US is an extreme take.
  • kamlaserbeam 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • karpatic 2y ago
      A judge gave the green light on deportationn just yesterday.
      • ceejayoz 2y ago
        Immigration judges are "administrative judges" and work for the executive (i.e. Trump), not an independent branch. It'll be appealed to a Federal court now.
        • karpatic 2y ago
          Mhmm! Thanks for adding context.
    • immibis 2y ago
      > Opposing the support for another foreign nation's genocide is not a support of terrorism? It is in Germany and also in the USA. It doesn't matter whether you agree with the government on this point or not, because the government are the ones with the legal right to lock you up.
• charlescearl 2y ago
  The united states has the world’s largest incarcerated population. It currently dwarfs the number incarcerated by the Soviet Union during the 1930s. The USA has the fifth highest incarceration rate on the planet. In the Southeast United States, the incarceration rate of the Black population is 7% (as a point of comparison 2x the incarceration rate of minoritized Uyghur population of China per the World Uyghur Congress figures)
  • Aloisius 2y ago
    > It currently dwarfs the number incarcerated by the Soviet Union during the 1930s. Not really. Estimates for the number of people in labor camps, labor colonies and prisons are all over the place, but based on their own fragmented records reached about 2 million by the end of 1938. That doesn't count pretrial/administrative detentions or the hundreds of thousands that were simply executed that year or all the people exiled to inhospitable settlements. And of course, the mortality rate in their penal system was extremely high. > In the Southeast United States, incarceration rate of the Black population is 7% Nowhere in the US is there anywhere close to incarcerating 7% of the black population. That said, the US incarceration rate is ridiculously high and we should be ashamed of it.
  • wqaatwt 2y ago
    > It currently dwarfs the number incarcerated by the Soviet Union during the 1930s That was certainly false if you look at the late 40s (not by much, only 2x or so though..) However if you actually think (since you post nonsensical “statistics” that’s unlikely) about it the mortality rates in soviet concentration camps were massive, especially in the 1930s or during the war which significantly decreased the incarceration rate. Can’t have a huge prison population if you just murder or starve everyone to death..
• grafmax 2y ago
  In the US the upper class rules by soft power that gives people the illusion of choice while actually they hold all the power. I agree it’s better that we don’t yet see individuals directly punished at scale for dissent. But if this is all we settle for we’re like dogs fighting for scraps.
  • Braxton1980 2y ago
    > But if this is all we settle for we’re like dogs fighting for scraps. Who is settling for this? It's just one battle when multiple battles occur at the same time and we don't stop fighting. Are you saying too much is being focused on this issue? I think it's something that if we don't do that then it will only get worse.
    • grafmax 2y ago
      I’d argue this is the biggest issue, because it’s ultimately about who controls the political process. Unless we can wrest that control from the hands of the wealthy, it’s hard to see how we can make lasting progress on other fronts. They run the show according to their own interests, even undermining the Constitution when it suits them. The fact that they still hold all the power is proof that, consciously or not, enough people are still settling for scraps. You may not be, but many are, and that’s part of the problem.