5 ms·

The only good thing about this is that it will be reversed by the next administration. Of course, that's only if we have another election...

rurp 1y ago
I fully expect to be disappointed but what should happen if Dems ever get back into power (and that's a definite `if`) is to immediately cut off all dealings this corrupt guy's companies. No more government agencies on twitter, no more massive government subsidies for his companies, no more special regulatory treatment, and so on. Dems being Dems, they will probably just muddle around and do absolutely nothing to address all of this insane corruption, if they even get a chance to.
- maeil 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - wilg 1y ago
    it is in fact the Republican party and its voters that got the US Trump
    - maeil 1y ago
      Which was made inevitable by the Dems. This isn't just a US phenomenon. Similar in Europe with far-right authoritarian parties' rise having been made inevitable by their "labour" parties. Though the Dems case is significantly worse, hence why Trump is worse than anything we've seen in Western-Europe. Look, what you're saying is obviously true, but you've got to look at the bigger picture. Trump didn't show up out of nowhere, there's at least 2 decades of relevant US governments. You can't just ignore all of that context. The Dems too, with very few exceptions (the Reps also used to have such exceptions pre-MAGA) only care about their own, individual power. 2016 says it all. If they were any better, they could've picked a hundred other candidates who'd have beaten Trump, and if he'd lost it's almost unthinkable the Reps would've nominated him again in 2020. They didn't, they knowingly picked one of the very few options who at the time would lose. They picked her for pure individual power structural reasons. Because that's what they do. 2024 all but confirmed that. They're only interested in image and optics to preserve their own standing, or they would've cut Biden far earlier. In HN terms: Stop anthropomorphizing Larry Ellisson. He's been a lawnmower for decades. And the same goes for the Dems.
      - tasty_freeze 1y ago
        You claim the dems could have picked a hundred other candidates than Hillary that could have easily defeated Trump. That is some grade A revisionist history. If you recall, the Republicans had a very large field (15?) candidates initially, and Trump was seen even by Republicans as an entertaining but embarrassing candidate. Yet Trump beat every one of those well-financed, established GOP candidates.
  - bsder 1y ago
    > Do people not realize it's the Dems that got the US Trump? The GOP has the power to stand up to Trump immediately with legislation or with impeachment. The Democrats are already on record as voting for impeachment. Trump has continued to do lots of stuff that is impeachable with lots of evidence. Had the GOP impeached Trump when they had the chance, they would have been rid of him by now. In addition, with this last election, a bunch of idiotic people sat on their ass going "But they're both the same." or "I don't get into politics." As if their "status quo" status was somehow a virtuous deed instead of a disgusting malfeasance cloaked in laziness. "It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." -- John Philpot Curran, 1790
    - maeil 1y ago
      And this is exactly this what has got us here. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You know the Larry Ellison lawnmower one, right? That's what you're doing with the GOP, and really, with voters. Actions have consequences. Both in 2016, and 2024, if the Dems wanted to win, they could've. If they wanted to stop Trump, they could've. They didn't. They had the power and intelligence to do so. Whether people vote or not vote is a consequence of the last 20 years of history. It's a few billion parameter model. Given the parameters, the outcome is set. The Dems for decades provided inputs to these parameters that were always going to lead to this outcome. For what it's worth, I was being a bit provocative. As it's not the Dems who got us Trump - it's the Dems and the Reps who got us Trump.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    > Do people not realize it's the Dems that got the US Trump? You mean? - Everything the Democrats screw up on is the Democrats fault. - Everything the Republicans screw up on is the Democrats fault. So the only correct thing to do is vote for Republicans? This is why America can't have nice things.
    - maeil 1y ago
      "The lawnmower just mows the lawn, you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, lawnmower can't hate you." > So the only correct thing to do is vote for Republicans? How could this possibly be the conclusion to someone saying the Dems are what led us to Trump?
      - anigbrowl 1y ago
        Maybe just say what you mean instead of posting reactions. ie if you think the Dems brought about Trump say why, and whatever you think the better idea than voting for them is.
      - ocdtrekkie 1y ago
        There are two parties, and no realistic path for a third. So blaming one is essentially endorsing the other.
        GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
        That doesn’t follow. Are we not supposed to expect better of our representatives?
        seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        You are supposed to vote for the best choices you have, or write someone in if you want. It isn't reasonable to vote for the worst choice and expect better results. Also, never let perfect be the enemy of "not as bad as the other choice", unless you want to see the country/economy/world burn.
  - flir 1y ago
    Yes, voting Republican to avoid Trump is a much better plan.
    - maeil 1y ago
      You're seeing things that aren't there, I wouldn't suggest anything of the sort.
      - yibg 1y ago
        What are you suggesting then? Who should we vote for?
        flir 1y ago
        *crickets*
  - SkipperCat 1y ago
    The Republican Party changed dramatically in 2016. They became something they never were before and due to the populist trends in the county, they won the election. There is a very high chance that the next democrat contenders will be very different from what we saw in 2016 and 2024. We can’t judge how same or different the DNC will be in 2028 much like you could not see Trump as a contender when Romney faced off Obama in 2012. So, I’d say your estimate of “zero chance” is too early. Let’s see who the dems field in the midterms first.
    - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
      We can make an informed judgement because we’ve seen the Democratic Party refuse to to change throughout the last ten years of Trump candidacy and election… not to mention the issue that likely cost them the election to begin with.
      - SkipperCat 1y ago
        Biden quitting was a big change. Not enough to win the 2024 election for Harris, but still a change. I think failure is the biggest motivation for change, and the Dems have failed bigly. I think there's a decent sized chance they run a more populist candidate in 2028 and maybe the mid-terms too.
  - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
    Republicans wouldn't push so hard to disenfranchise people from voting if what you are pushing was true.
  - yibg 1y ago
    Don't vote for dems because they caused Trump to happen, so instead vote for... Trump directly?

rurp 1y ago

I fully expect to be disappointed but what should happen if Dems ever get back into power (and that's a definite `if`) is to immediately cut off all dealings this corrupt guy's companies. No more government agencies on twitter, no more massive government subsidies for his companies, no more special regulatory treatment, and so on. Dems being Dems, they will probably just muddle around and do absolutely nothing to address all of this insane corruption, if they even get a chance to.

maeil 1y ago
[flagged]
- wilg 1y ago
  it is in fact the Republican party and its voters that got the US Trump
  - maeil 1y ago
    Which was made inevitable by the Dems. This isn't just a US phenomenon. Similar in Europe with far-right authoritarian parties' rise having been made inevitable by their "labour" parties. Though the Dems case is significantly worse, hence why Trump is worse than anything we've seen in Western-Europe. Look, what you're saying is obviously true, but you've got to look at the bigger picture. Trump didn't show up out of nowhere, there's at least 2 decades of relevant US governments. You can't just ignore all of that context. The Dems too, with very few exceptions (the Reps also used to have such exceptions pre-MAGA) only care about their own, individual power. 2016 says it all. If they were any better, they could've picked a hundred other candidates who'd have beaten Trump, and if he'd lost it's almost unthinkable the Reps would've nominated him again in 2020. They didn't, they knowingly picked one of the very few options who at the time would lose. They picked her for pure individual power structural reasons. Because that's what they do. 2024 all but confirmed that. They're only interested in image and optics to preserve their own standing, or they would've cut Biden far earlier. In HN terms: Stop anthropomorphizing Larry Ellisson. He's been a lawnmower for decades. And the same goes for the Dems.
    - tasty_freeze 1y ago
      You claim the dems could have picked a hundred other candidates than Hillary that could have easily defeated Trump. That is some grade A revisionist history. If you recall, the Republicans had a very large field (15?) candidates initially, and Trump was seen even by Republicans as an entertaining but embarrassing candidate. Yet Trump beat every one of those well-financed, established GOP candidates.
- bsder 1y ago
  > Do people not realize it's the Dems that got the US Trump? The GOP has the power to stand up to Trump immediately with legislation or with impeachment. The Democrats are already on record as voting for impeachment. Trump has continued to do lots of stuff that is impeachable with lots of evidence. Had the GOP impeached Trump when they had the chance, they would have been rid of him by now. In addition, with this last election, a bunch of idiotic people sat on their ass going "But they're both the same." or "I don't get into politics." As if their "status quo" status was somehow a virtuous deed instead of a disgusting malfeasance cloaked in laziness. "It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." -- John Philpot Curran, 1790
  - maeil 1y ago
    And this is exactly this what has got us here. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You know the Larry Ellison lawnmower one, right? That's what you're doing with the GOP, and really, with voters. Actions have consequences. Both in 2016, and 2024, if the Dems wanted to win, they could've. If they wanted to stop Trump, they could've. They didn't. They had the power and intelligence to do so. Whether people vote or not vote is a consequence of the last 20 years of history. It's a few billion parameter model. Given the parameters, the outcome is set. The Dems for decades provided inputs to these parameters that were always going to lead to this outcome. For what it's worth, I was being a bit provocative. As it's not the Dems who got us Trump - it's the Dems and the Reps who got us Trump.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  > Do people not realize it's the Dems that got the US Trump? You mean? - Everything the Democrats screw up on is the Democrats fault. - Everything the Republicans screw up on is the Democrats fault. So the only correct thing to do is vote for Republicans? This is why America can't have nice things.
  - maeil 1y ago
    "The lawnmower just mows the lawn, you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, lawnmower can't hate you." > So the only correct thing to do is vote for Republicans? How could this possibly be the conclusion to someone saying the Dems are what led us to Trump?
    - anigbrowl 1y ago
      Maybe just say what you mean instead of posting reactions. ie if you think the Dems brought about Trump say why, and whatever you think the better idea than voting for them is.
    - ocdtrekkie 1y ago
      There are two parties, and no realistic path for a third. So blaming one is essentially endorsing the other.
      - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
        That doesn’t follow. Are we not supposed to expect better of our representatives?
        seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        You are supposed to vote for the best choices you have, or write someone in if you want. It isn't reasonable to vote for the worst choice and expect better results. Also, never let perfect be the enemy of "not as bad as the other choice", unless you want to see the country/economy/world burn.
- flir 1y ago
  Yes, voting Republican to avoid Trump is a much better plan.
  - maeil 1y ago
    You're seeing things that aren't there, I wouldn't suggest anything of the sort.
    - yibg 1y ago
      What are you suggesting then? Who should we vote for?
      - flir 1y ago
        *crickets*
- SkipperCat 1y ago
  The Republican Party changed dramatically in 2016. They became something they never were before and due to the populist trends in the county, they won the election. There is a very high chance that the next democrat contenders will be very different from what we saw in 2016 and 2024. We can’t judge how same or different the DNC will be in 2028 much like you could not see Trump as a contender when Romney faced off Obama in 2012. So, I’d say your estimate of “zero chance” is too early. Let’s see who the dems field in the midterms first.
  - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
    We can make an informed judgement because we’ve seen the Democratic Party refuse to to change throughout the last ten years of Trump candidacy and election… not to mention the issue that likely cost them the election to begin with.
    - SkipperCat 1y ago
      Biden quitting was a big change. Not enough to win the 2024 election for Harris, but still a change. I think failure is the biggest motivation for change, and the Dems have failed bigly. I think there's a decent sized chance they run a more populist candidate in 2028 and maybe the mid-terms too.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  Republicans wouldn't push so hard to disenfranchise people from voting if what you are pushing was true.
- yibg 1y ago
  Don't vote for dems because they caused Trump to happen, so instead vote for... Trump directly?