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So when the government pointed to the disproportionate support for Palestine on TikTok vs Instagram, it was actually because Instagram was suppressing it. It is

So when the government pointed to the disproportionate support for Palestine on TikTok vs Instagram, it was actually because Instagram was suppressing it. It is ironic. https://x.com/hawleymo/status/1717505662601609401 https://x.com/hawleymo/status/1717505662601609401

nashashmi 2y ago
Another reason why TikTok has to come under US ownership. How else are we going to censor things when they are under China’s (lack of) control?
- square_usual 2y ago
  And conversely, another reason why Trump's tariffs on China are a bone-headed move. They are not going to sell TikTok while the tariffs last, and the popular demand for it makes banning it a non-starter.
- bradly 2y ago
  Exactly. China demands Apple Maps be ran on Chinese servers by Chinese workers. I would expect current U.S. administration to be frustrated with these imbalances as surveillance state measures increase. These imbalances were less important when there was less interest in information and truth suppression.
  - bradlys 2y ago
    At least for all the surveillance the Chinese do - the standard of life is improving overall. We don't even get that shit here in the US. Our life just gets worse by practically every measure as the years go on and we're taken advantage of on top of it.
    - cj 2y ago
      What benchmark are you using for standard of life?
      - DaSHacka 2y ago
        Number of citizens reeducated, I presume.
        Viliam1234 2y ago
        More organs harvested from political prisoners.
        bradlys 2y ago
        Ah yes, the US known for putting people in prisons where we use techniques the Nazis developed as part of our “enhanced interrogation”. USA is totally way better than China here!
        econ 2y ago
        Comparing apples to oranges works surprisingly well if they are rotten enough? 50th vs 70th https://index.goodcountry.org/ https://index.goodcountry.org/ Both the US and China score surprisingly bad on everything listed here. I do prefer the way janalsncm described quality of life. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659542 Is there an index for those some place?
      - bradlys 2y ago
        At the very least, wages for the average citizen. It’s not perfect but at least there’s movement towards building something. What is the US building towards? Enriching billionaires?
        tempodox 2y ago
        “AI” avatars. Totally gonna make the world a better place. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43626707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43626707
      - janalsncm 2y ago
        There’s probably not one single benchmark (and I won’t say that all of them are negative in the US) but we can just think generally about the things we’d like in a good life: Life expectancy. Chronic disease rates. Suicide rates. Depression rates. Violent crime rates. Marriage rates. Home ownership rates. Education rates. Debt rates. Labor participation rates. Wealth inequity. No one metric is a complete picture but together they tell a story. If America was a product and the above was on a dashboard, you would fire the CEO.
  - bognition 2y ago
    Where do you think the servers that power TikTok in the United States are? Who do you think administers those servers?
    - bradly 2y ago
      I have no idea. I worked on the team at Apple that deployed Apple Maps across the globe and China was very different than other countries. South Korea had some interesting requirements as well. I've not worked on that team at TikTok and wouldn't expect the knowledge of the exact requirements to be shared publicly.
RedComet 2y ago
Yes. This was clearly the reason for the ban in the first place.
nikkwong 2y ago
While this may be part of the story, it's certainly not the full picture. We know that the CCP is actively manipulating the algorithm on Tiktok to further their agenda on multiple other geopolitical issues—something we have ample evidence for. I don't know if there is a smoking gun on this one topic in particular, but the CCP's goal has always been to divide the American audience; and we know that older Americans skew pro-Israel whilst younger Americans are more oriented towards being pro-Palestinian. If someone looked in the right places, they would more likely than not find evidence of algorithm manipulation to favor a Palestinian bend.
- janalsncm 2y ago
  > something we have ample evidence for Can you share some of that evidence? My impression from the SCOTUS case is that the government only alleged it could happen, not that it was happening. So I’m a bit surprised to see someone so confidently assert it is happening. > more likely than not find evidence of algorithm manipulation I think a lot of people have been looking. For years. Yet you admit there is no smoking gun. Perhaps if we look in the right place we will find Russell’s teapot orbiting Jupiter as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
    I'd like to see that evidence too, hopefully for more than one instance/source. IMO, it's been obvious that the danger seen in TikTok is that it's a propaganda tool out of USA's control. If it was really a national security danger, USA could simply ban it instead of fighting so hard to own it.
  - nikkwong 2y ago
    You don't have to look that hard—there have been several independent groups who have noted different ways in which the algorithm is skewed pro-CCP: https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-The-CCPs-Digital-Charm-Offensive.pdf https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-... https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/social-psychology/articles/10.3389/frsps.2024.1497434/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/social-psychology/artic...
liorsbg 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
HDThoreaun 2y ago
Most americans support Israel in this conflict. Maybe the samples are just biased?
- hedora 2y ago
  Current polls say 53% of Americans disapprove of Israel’s actions, and 38% say it is genocide. Regarding your specific claim, here’s the most recent poll I could find. In june, 61% of Americans opposed sending military support: https://theintercept.com/2024/09/10/polls-arms-embargo-israel-weapons-gaza/ https://theintercept.com/2024/09/10/polls-arms-embargo-israe...
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Not true at all. Talk to the average American, not an extremist of either side, and they want Israel to defend themselves and stop demanding billions from us then talking down to us and telling themselves we are easy to trick into giving them full support and money whenever they want

nashashmi 2y ago

Another reason why TikTok has to come under US ownership. How else are we going to censor things when they are under China’s (lack of) control?

square_usual 2y ago
And conversely, another reason why Trump's tariffs on China are a bone-headed move. They are not going to sell TikTok while the tariffs last, and the popular demand for it makes banning it a non-starter.
bradly 2y ago
Exactly. China demands Apple Maps be ran on Chinese servers by Chinese workers. I would expect current U.S. administration to be frustrated with these imbalances as surveillance state measures increase. These imbalances were less important when there was less interest in information and truth suppression.
- bradlys 2y ago
  At least for all the surveillance the Chinese do - the standard of life is improving overall. We don't even get that shit here in the US. Our life just gets worse by practically every measure as the years go on and we're taken advantage of on top of it.
  - cj 2y ago
    What benchmark are you using for standard of life?
    - DaSHacka 2y ago
      Number of citizens reeducated, I presume.
      - Viliam1234 2y ago
        More organs harvested from political prisoners.
        bradlys 2y ago
        Ah yes, the US known for putting people in prisons where we use techniques the Nazis developed as part of our “enhanced interrogation”. USA is totally way better than China here!
        econ 2y ago
        Comparing apples to oranges works surprisingly well if they are rotten enough? 50th vs 70th https://index.goodcountry.org/ https://index.goodcountry.org/ Both the US and China score surprisingly bad on everything listed here. I do prefer the way janalsncm described quality of life. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659542 Is there an index for those some place?
    - bradlys 2y ago
      At the very least, wages for the average citizen. It’s not perfect but at least there’s movement towards building something. What is the US building towards? Enriching billionaires?
      - tempodox 2y ago
        “AI” avatars. Totally gonna make the world a better place. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43626707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43626707
    - janalsncm 2y ago
      There’s probably not one single benchmark (and I won’t say that all of them are negative in the US) but we can just think generally about the things we’d like in a good life: Life expectancy. Chronic disease rates. Suicide rates. Depression rates. Violent crime rates. Marriage rates. Home ownership rates. Education rates. Debt rates. Labor participation rates. Wealth inequity. No one metric is a complete picture but together they tell a story. If America was a product and the above was on a dashboard, you would fire the CEO.
- bognition 2y ago
  Where do you think the servers that power TikTok in the United States are? Who do you think administers those servers?
  - bradly 2y ago
    I have no idea. I worked on the team at Apple that deployed Apple Maps across the globe and China was very different than other countries. South Korea had some interesting requirements as well. I've not worked on that team at TikTok and wouldn't expect the knowledge of the exact requirements to be shared publicly.

RedComet 2y ago

Yes. This was clearly the reason for the ban in the first place.

nikkwong 2y ago

While this may be part of the story, it's certainly not the full picture. We know that the CCP is actively manipulating the algorithm on Tiktok to further their agenda on multiple other geopolitical issues—something we have ample evidence for. I don't know if there is a smoking gun on this one topic in particular, but the CCP's goal has always been to divide the American audience; and we know that older Americans skew pro-Israel whilst younger Americans are more oriented towards being pro-Palestinian. If someone looked in the right places, they would more likely than not find evidence of algorithm manipulation to favor a Palestinian bend.

janalsncm 2y ago
> something we have ample evidence for Can you share some of that evidence? My impression from the SCOTUS case is that the government only alleged it could happen, not that it was happening. So I’m a bit surprised to see someone so confidently assert it is happening. > more likely than not find evidence of algorithm manipulation I think a lot of people have been looking. For years. Yet you admit there is no smoking gun. Perhaps if we look in the right place we will find Russell’s teapot orbiting Jupiter as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  I'd like to see that evidence too, hopefully for more than one instance/source. IMO, it's been obvious that the danger seen in TikTok is that it's a propaganda tool out of USA's control. If it was really a national security danger, USA could simply ban it instead of fighting so hard to own it.
- nikkwong 2y ago
  You don't have to look that hard—there have been several independent groups who have noted different ways in which the algorithm is skewed pro-CCP: https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-The-CCPs-Digital-Charm-Offensive.pdf https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-... https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/social-psychology/articles/10.3389/frsps.2024.1497434/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/social-psychology/artic...

liorsbg 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

HDThoreaun 2y ago

Most americans support Israel in this conflict. Maybe the samples are just biased?

hedora 2y ago
Current polls say 53% of Americans disapprove of Israel’s actions, and 38% say it is genocide. Regarding your specific claim, here’s the most recent poll I could find. In june, 61% of Americans opposed sending military support: https://theintercept.com/2024/09/10/polls-arms-embargo-israel-weapons-gaza/ https://theintercept.com/2024/09/10/polls-arms-embargo-israe...
aprilthird2021 2y ago
Not true at all. Talk to the average American, not an extremist of either side, and they want Israel to defend themselves and stop demanding billions from us then talking down to us and telling themselves we are easy to trick into giving them full support and money whenever they want