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I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over
by aucisson_masque 2y ago
I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over and over....
Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media, like facebook to get their news. These companies are enticed to 'suck up' to the government because at the end they are business, they need to be in good term with ruling class.
you end up with most media complying with the official story pushed by government and friends, and most people believing that because no one has the time to fact check everything.
One could argue that the difference with russia is that someone can actually look for real information, but even in russia people have access to vpn to bypass the censorship.
Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. Since everyone goes on mainstream media and they enforce the government narrative, you can't speak there. you are merely allowed to speak out in your little corner out of reach to anyone, and even then since most people believe the government propaganda, your arguments won't be heard at all.
The more i think about it, the less difference i see.
- gooosle 2y agoThe difference with Russia is that they are much worse at hiding their corruption and censorship.
- rchaud 2y agoRussia doesn't bang the drum of "free speech" ad nauseam the way US social media magnates do.
- gooosle 2y agoSure, the 'free speech' propaganda is a conscious part of the (better/more effective) public opinion manipulation playbook.
- tryauuum 2y agoTrue. I was born in Russia and to be honest I wish Russia would at least "bang the drum of free speech" as well. If you pretend to have some values you actually make people start to believe in them a bit
- rchaud 2y agoI'm pretty sure Russia still preaches a lot of admirable things that it doesn't actually practice. Talk is cheap yet people will put stock in it anyway.
- int_19h 2y agoStrictly speaking, Russia has quite explicit free speech protections in its constitution. So much so that it separately covers freedom of speech and freedom of press, and in regard to the latter straight up says "censorship is prohibited". Whenever this topic comes up, the government just nods at the document, as if it had any relation to the real world.
- newsclues 2y agoIt’s not a better or worse government (although it may be), it’s just different.
- uniqueuid 2y agoYou’re not arrested for posting this, so that is a pretty big difference to Russia (and other authoritarian nations like China and Turkey), no? https://rsf.org/en/country/russia https://rsf.org/en/country/russia
- Cyph0n 2y agoYou do realize that this is where things are going, right? Have you not heard of the arrests and recent deportations of student protestors? I don’t understand why we keep forgetting that authoritarianism is a slippery slope.
- uniqueuid 2y agoYou have a point with democratic backsliding - but then your rights hinge on the impartiality of the judicial system (as a whole, and eventually, not necessarily individual decisions evidently). It’s pretty obvious that the legal systems even in flawed democracies is still vastly better than in those autocracies.
- Cyph0n 2y agoA tale as old as time: watch from the sidelines while things are relatively “good” before suddenly finding yourself on the naughty list.
- ethbr1 2y agoChecks and balances are a crucial feature of American democracy. It's almost as though the framers of the Constitution foresaw the possibility of the two elected branches of government (executive and legislative) being monopolized by the same group, at some point. And that the very flexibility of regular, open, direct elections also required a check to protect the fundamental rights of all people in the country.
- candiddevmike 2y agoThey may have foresaw it but they did little if anything to prevent it. They lamented that political parties would probably be the downfall, and here we are...
- scottyah 2y agoIt's still humans being humans, we just have a covert culture while they are more overt. I personally like being tricked/manipulated more than forced. I'd rather get Tom Sawyered into painting a fence than being held at gunpoint.
- NoTeslaThrow 2y agoIndeed. The editorial boards of these newsrooms are often staffed with people who attended the same schools and classes as those running the country. The social circles of the two worlds are extremely closely linked. Of course, this means that the reporting isn't very good at addressing its blind spots–i.e., most of the news in the country, let alone the world, that isn't relevant to the ivy league coastal elites. And I say this as a member of that same class. Most of the political perspectives in my life are completely unrepresented in the opinion columns, which generally tend to pander upwards rather than downwards. I don't tend to put much weight in freedom of the press so long as that press is floating on the cream of society and asking the government permission to report on what they're doing.
- shihab 2y agoThe NYT's Executive Editor Joe Kahn is the son of a billionaire who was on the board of lobby group CAMERA, a group devoted to pressuring US media to be more pro-Israel.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago[flagged]
- shihab 2y ago[flagged]
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago[flagged]
- MPSFounder 2y ago[flagged]
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- alistairSH 2y agoIs Meta really considered “mainstream media”? I always took that phrase to refer to NBC, CBS, NY Post, etc - the big legacy news organizations (print and TV).
- JKCalhoun 2y agoHow does "mainstream" America increasingly get its news?
- bee_rider 2y agoI read “mainstream” as one of those words like “modern,” to apply the media that was prevalent when the phrase was coined. Technically modern architecture, if we read the words literally and individually… well, I guess that would be tent-cities, that seems to mostly be what gets built nowadays. Facebook, the tent-city of media, actually it would kinda work if only the platform wasn’t centrally controlled.
- ljm 2y agoThe big legacy news organisations would be legacy media. Social media is not even 20 years old but it’s a tall order to deny it mainstream status since the younger generations get their news from scrolling TikTok and not cracking open the daily broadsheet. Legacy media has been sourcing from Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit for years. They’re as mainstream as AP and Reuters but without the reputation or the credentials.
- petre 2y agoIt's mainstream, it's media, people read their news on it, so yes. But I'd rather trust NPR, BBC, the Guardian or some other legacy news outlet, because these unscrupulous tech bros will skew the narrarive by silencing some sources while brainwashing people with whatever suits them best.
- BergAndCo 2y ago[dead]
- kubb 2y agoAnna Politkovskaya – Investigative journalist and critic of the Chechen war, shot in Moscow (2006). Alexander Litvinenko – Ex-FSB officer poisoned with polonium in London (2006). Stanislav Markelov & Anastasia Baburova – Human rights lawyer and journalist, shot in Moscow (2009). Boris Nemtsov – Opposition leader, shot near the Kremlin (2015). Denis Voronenkov – Former Russian MP, shot in Kyiv (2017). Nikolai Andrushchenko – Journalist, beaten to death in St. Petersburg (2017). Alexei Navalny – Opposition leader, died in prison after previous poisoning (2024). --- The difference is that they murder their political opponents for show to make their people be afraid of dissent. You comparing it with some (disgusting, vile) social media company (which would improve the world immensely if it disappeared) is completely inappropriate.
- sharpshadow 2y agoIf you gonna mix in politicians and opposition the USA has a extensive list themselves.
- tdeck 2y agoFred Hampton would have something to say if, you know, he were still alive.
- MomsAVoxell 2y agoI mean, you don’t have to go far to find Soviet-style political repression in the USA. Julian Assange says hi.
- basisword 2y ago"We're not as bad as them" is a poor argument. Particularly while America quickly slides in that direction. Just take a look at the deportation of Venezuelans especially the case of the wrongly deported man that the government conveniently "can't find". That's a story comparable to the stories Americans tell about Russia and China.
- bradly 2y agoI think OP is more using this incident along with many others. Things similar to in February when the President signed executive orders that imposed sanctions on American law firms and lawyers which included suspension of security clearances, termination of government contracts, and restrictions preventing firm employees from accessing federal buildings. (https://www.justsecurity.org/110109/president-cannot-issue-attainder-bills/ https://www.justsecurity.org/110109/president-cannot-issue-a...) I have no idea how to talk equality to speak of whether they are comparable or not, but I do think people are seeing a different atmosphere.
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- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 2y agoI don't think this is necessarily an issue of censorship so much as it is highlighting that Facebook is clearly a fucking news publisher and should be treated as such under the law. It's time to revoke section 230 for any social media network that amplifies or buries content with a non-transparent process. In this case it isn't even merely an algorithm designed by humans. They have LITERAL human editors choosing which stories to put on the front page, just like the NYT, and they should be held liable for the content on their platforms just like legacy media is.
- mkolodny 2y agoAre you saying you think human editors handpick what goes on billions of people’s Facebook feeds?
- bolognafairy 2y ago[flagged]
- mkolodny 2y ago[flagged]
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y agoWait but if you perform an extremely complex method of algorithmic curation, at some point isn’t the human designing the algorithm becoming an editor?
- roro_7 2y ago[dead]
- mnky9800n 2y agoRussia doesn’t just put people in jail for speaking against the government. They weaponise the generational fear of being disappeared by the government. This is not close to what happens in America where you can post anything anywhere and if Facebook deletes it you can always make your own website about it. If you did this in Russia you go to jail. Even if you say things like “it is sad Ukrainian children die in children’s day in Russia” you go to jail. I don’t think you can compare modern USA with modern Russia in this way. USA does plenty of other things that are bad like jailing so many people for petty crimes without pushing much on speech. USA has its own problems and all these comparisons only hide them.
- spencerflem 2y agoThey are now denying visas, and deporting lawful residents, sending them to offshore torture prisons, for social media posts. For non citizens, regardless of length of time or legality, this is the case right now. For birthright citizens and full citizens it will be the case very soon
- jwr 2y ago> birthright citizens and full citizens Is there a difference?
- SauciestGNU 2y agoNo, I think they meant "naturalized and birthright citizens".
- spencerflem 2y agoThey are intending to unconstitutionally remove birthright. I expect they will start having trouble slightly before third generation+ immigrants.
- jwr 2y agoBut… they can't remove citizenship retroactively. What I mean is today there are citizens and non-citizens, but there are no classes of citizens. Either you have citizenship or you do not, it doesn't matter how you acquired it.
- Braxton1980 2y ago>Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. Although not even close in number and punishment the US government is deporting people for speaking against Israel. I think we do have a much better system because we are aware of these cases, you can speak out about the issue, and our court system can rule against the current admin. What makes this possible to either the level of Russia or the US is how much the supporters of the regime want it. This is regardless of morality, legality, or the precedent it sets.
- whatshisface 2y agoYou only feel safe to speak out against the violations of law if you feel safe from them.
- viraptor 2y ago> and our court system can rule against the current admin. That is more and more often not happening recently, because courts are not involved. If they are and explicitly request planes to be turned around and people brought back - they're ignored without repercussions.
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- mmooss 2y agoThis post is oddly nonsensical ... > mainstream media, like facebook Facebook is in the 'mainstream media'? That's a first in my experience. 'Mainstream media' usually describes established journalism organizations such as CNN, Fox, the NY Times, the WSJ. Facebook is universally grouped with 'social media' in my experience. > Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media In fact, most people go on social media. The 'mainstream media' is losing audience rapidly. > you end up with most media complying with the official story pushed by government and friends I'm a bit confused here. Facebook complying with ... which government? The Israeli government has very little power over Facebook - Israel is a tiny market. Meanwhile, Trump has been calling the 'mainstream media', the 'enemy of the people' - because they constantly report what he doesn't like. Since the November election, many have shockingly capitulated but many remain. The NYT, for example, publishes negative news and criticisms of Trump and Israel daily. > The more i think about it, the less difference i see. You haven't established much of anything. Much of the comment doesn't make sense. Where is the Russian NYT? Which American journalists are in jail?
- kombine 2y ago> Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. This is more subtle. I have a lot to say about Israel, and I do post occasionally on Facebook, but I tone it down a lot because I have a few high profile people in the industry and academia among my Facebook friends (not actual friends). If I were to post what I really think, this would have serious career repercussions for me. People would brand me as an antisemite (they don't know that my grandfather is Jewish and he practically raised me). Can you compare this to Russia? Well, I am Russian and I live in the West, so my choice of living here gives an answer to this question. I'd be in jail in Russia if they read my Facebook posts about the war in Ukraine. Yet, I'm now disillusioned about the Western liberalism, all thanks to Gaza war.
- hello_computer 2y agoThe college deportations are the government, but I would guess that the Meta compliance has more to do with the fact that Cheryl Sandberg is a politically-connected turbo-Zionist. I wish we were neutral on this issue. As an American, it is not my business. I am in no position to justly arbitrate between them. But our politicians are whores, our Zionists have deep pockets, and they're not afraid to empty them out for the cause, so it looks like America's taxpayers are all on Team Zionist, whether we like it or not.
- earnestinger 2y agoTechnically, they are the same. As in: people with power want to control the narrative. This was so, is so and will always be so, everywhere. But but but… details matter. A lot. The west has traditions how and when to apply power, which is distinctly different from Russia. I hand-pick two illustrations of Russia: 1. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/09/27/moscow-police-accused-of-raping-anti-draft-activist-a78899 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/09/27/moscow-police-accu... > Officers “beat up Kamardin very badly and stuck a dumbbell in his anus,” according to Novaya Gazeta Europe. 2. Bald man claim to power was accompanies with mysterious explosions of apartment buildings after which Chechens were declared enemies and war started. Some interesting bits from wikipedia: > Three Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) agents who had planted the devices at Ryazan were arrested by the local police.[6] The next day, FSB director Nikolai Patrushev announced that the incident in Ryazan had been an anti-terror drill and the device found there contained only sugar, and freed the FSB agents involved.[7] And > 13 September 1999: Russian Duma speaker Gennadiy Seleznyov makes an announcement about the bombing of an apartment building in the city of Volgodonsk that only takes place three days later > 16 September 1999: Bombing in Volgodonsk, 17 are killed, 69 injured https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombi...
- AlexGrothen 2y ago>hand-picked cherry-picked, actually 1. Almost exactly the same incident happened in the USA, NYPD sodomized Michael Mineo: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_Park_alleged_police_sodomy_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_Park_alleged_police... None of the NYPD officers didn't have any sentence for this 2. That's an old conspiracy theory, even the Russian opposition (at least the reasonable part of it) doesn't support this theory. There are plenty of publications about it in Russian, and if you will do some effort you will find why
- earnestinger 2y ago> Russian opposition Do you mean the guy who died relatively recently in Russian prison? Or his colleague who was part of prisoner exchange
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- somethingreen 2y agoCorruption of power is an inherent property of power. It is expected that people in power will get corrupted. The methods of power grabs are also fairly universal. The difference between a corrupt shithole and free world is not in what the government tries to do, but in how the governed respond.
- NoOn3 2y agoIt is not so bad in Russia. Not so many sites are blocked. You can easily read foreign news if you want to. Hacker news is not blocked for example :).
- AlexGrothen 2y agoWell, there is a difference with Russia, actually. One of Palestinian professors, who studied freedom of speech, shaped it this way: The difference is that people from Russia, Arab countries etc DO know that their media is lying - but also they know the Western media is lying, because they read all that nonsense the westerners write about their countries. Good for you that you started to realize how corrupt the Western media is.
- wqaatwt 2y ago> The more i think about it, the less difference i see. You might consider trying not to view the world entirely in black and white then. This sort of sentiment is not particularly productive especially in times like this..
- klntsky 2y agoThe difference is not in the ability to be heard. The difference is in the consequences: jail or even death vs. merely not being heard.
- therealpygon 2y agoSadly, that situation is also contorted to legitimize the spread verifiably false information by certain current political cults, led by a Turnip, that claim it is another party controlling media because they believe that they have the secret access to the “truth” that is being “blocked” on all other sources of media, and point to other suppressed stories (even if completely unrelated or blocked due to being outright lies) as proof. Look at attempts to curtail the spread of completely false vaccine information that is now being used as proof of something nefarious (even while more nefarious activity is being perpetrated). Some people took notes from other Dictators’ control of media long ago and have been working toward it for many years via press-related misinformation to cause a loss of confidence. You would think the press would fight back harder against being de-legitimized, using stronger wording and calling lying what it is, but when your purse strings are being controlled by the same businesses that see opportunities to advantage themselves, it’s not surprising.
- neycoda 2y agoThe US isn't just trying to save the Jews... it's trying to leverage them to crush the Muslims for Christian domination.
- mjlangiii 2y agoyou might enjoy reading, "Manufacturing Consent"
- canxerian 2y agoAnother often overlooked difference is that non US/UK citizens are typically bilingual, so by definition can access more news sources
- msohailshah 2y agoThere is no difference between US and Russia in terms of free speech. Russia doesn't have promote a narrative of free speech while banning it. US suppresses it, punishes it and effectively deports anyone who criticizes Israel. Holy cows are holy everywhere, its just that different cows are holy everywhere.