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> Shipping what randos push works great for iOS and Android too. App store software is excruciatingly vetted, though. Apple and Google spend far, far, FAR mor

by ajross 2y ago

> Shipping what randos push works great for iOS and Android too. App store software is excruciatingly vetted, though. Apple and Google spend far, far, FAR more on validating the software they ship to customers than Fedora or Canonical, and it's not remotely close. It only looks like "randos" because the armies of auditors and datacenters of validation software are hidden behind the paywall.

IshKebab 2y ago
It's really not. At least on Android they have some automated vetting but that's about it. Any human vetting is mostly for business reasons. Also Windows and Mac have existed for decades and there's zero vetting there. Yeah malware exists but its easy to avoid and easily worth the benefit of actually being able to get up-to-date software from anywhere.
- skydhash 2y ago
  > Also Windows and Mac have existed for decades and there's zero vetting there. Isn't that only for applications? All the system software are provided and vetted by the OS developer.
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    Yeah but distro package repositories mostly consist of applications and non-system libraries.
    - skydhash 2y ago
      Most users only have an handful of applications installed. They may not be the same one, but flatpak is easy to setup if you want the latest version. And you're not tied to the system package manager if you want the latest for CLI software (nix, brew, toolbox,...) The nice thing about Debian is that you can have 2 full years of routine maintenance while getting reading for the next big updates. The main issue is upstream developer having bug fixes and features update on the same patch.
- ndiddy 2y ago
  The vetting on Windows is that basically any software that isn't signed by an EV certificate will show a scary SmartScreen warning on users' computers. Even if your users aren't deterred by the warning, you also have a significant chance of your executable getting mistakenly flagged by Windows Defender, and then you have to file a request for Microsoft to whitelist you. The vetting on Mac is that any unsigned software will show a scary warning and make your users have to dig into the security options in Settings to get the software to open. This isn't really proactive, but it means that if you ship malware, Microsoft/Apple can revoke your certificate. If you're interested in something similar to this distribution model on Linux, I would check out Flatpak. It's similar to how distribution works on Windows/Mac with the added benefit that updates are handled centrally (so you don't need to write auto-update functionality into each program) and that all programs are manually vetted both before they go up on Flathub and when they change any permissions. It also doesn't cost any money to list software, unlike the "no scary warnings" distribution options for both Windows and Mac.
ykonstant 2y ago
>App store software is excruciatingly vetted, though. Apple and Google spend far, far, FAR more on validating the software they ship to customers than Fedora or Canonical, and it's not remotely close. Hahah! ...they don't. They really don't, man. They do have procedures in place that makes them look like they do, though; I'll give you that.

by ajross 2y ago

IshKebab 2y ago

It's really not. At least on Android they have some automated vetting but that's about it. Any human vetting is mostly for business reasons. Also Windows and Mac have existed for decades and there's zero vetting there. Yeah malware exists but its easy to avoid and easily worth the benefit of actually being able to get up-to-date software from anywhere.

skydhash 2y ago
> Also Windows and Mac have existed for decades and there's zero vetting there. Isn't that only for applications? All the system software are provided and vetted by the OS developer.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  Yeah but distro package repositories mostly consist of applications and non-system libraries.
  - skydhash 2y ago
    Most users only have an handful of applications installed. They may not be the same one, but flatpak is easy to setup if you want the latest version. And you're not tied to the system package manager if you want the latest for CLI software (nix, brew, toolbox,...) The nice thing about Debian is that you can have 2 full years of routine maintenance while getting reading for the next big updates. The main issue is upstream developer having bug fixes and features update on the same patch.
ndiddy 2y ago
The vetting on Windows is that basically any software that isn't signed by an EV certificate will show a scary SmartScreen warning on users' computers. Even if your users aren't deterred by the warning, you also have a significant chance of your executable getting mistakenly flagged by Windows Defender, and then you have to file a request for Microsoft to whitelist you. The vetting on Mac is that any unsigned software will show a scary warning and make your users have to dig into the security options in Settings to get the software to open. This isn't really proactive, but it means that if you ship malware, Microsoft/Apple can revoke your certificate. If you're interested in something similar to this distribution model on Linux, I would check out Flatpak. It's similar to how distribution works on Windows/Mac with the added benefit that updates are handled centrally (so you don't need to write auto-update functionality into each program) and that all programs are manually vetted both before they go up on Flathub and when they change any permissions. It also doesn't cost any money to list software, unlike the "no scary warnings" distribution options for both Windows and Mac.

ykonstant 2y ago

>App store software is excruciatingly vetted, though. Apple and Google spend far, far, FAR more on validating the software they ship to customers than Fedora or Canonical, and it's not remotely close. Hahah! ...they don't. They really don't, man. They do have procedures in place that makes them look like they do, though; I'll give you that.