4 ms·

She Worked in a Harvard Lab to Reverse Aging, Until ICE Jailed Her

169 points by xnx 2y ago

windex 2y ago
Time for research to move to the EU. No point getting involved in the trouble that is the US these days with little tyrants everywhere.
- dkkergoog 2y ago
  [dead]
- georgemcbay 2y ago
  Yup. The brain drain driven by the dumpster-fire Trump administration is going to be immense, and it won't be confined to just immigrants.
- soraminazuki 2y ago
  Calling them little tyrants is an understatement when the far right is repositioning America to be a major threat to the free world.
  - ipython 2y ago
    Belittling them is the only approach that will work. They have such a thin skin and fragile egos that making logical arguments, following procedure, or addressing this via well established "norms" just results in them getting their rocks off on telling you to F off. See [0] just as one example of many. On the other hand, pointing out the lunacy of their actions, their hypocrisy, and malice through satire, parody and straight up bullying is the only way to truly break through the shell they've built around that fragile ego they're carrying around. Just my opinion. [0] https://shop.gop.com/products/liberal-tears-mug https://shop.gop.com/products/liberal-tears-mug
    - windex 2y ago
      Satire gets under their skin real fast.
    - soraminazuki 2y ago
      They're not bound by shame, so belittlement won't stop them either. Satire and parody is great, but it shouldn't downplay the risk given the stakes.
    - dontlaugh 2y ago
      Historically, guns are the only approach that works.
- eli_gottlieb 2y ago
  There's research funding in the EU?
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    That would still have been pithy a couple months ago, but at this point it might not be long before the reverse of that question applies.
    - eli_gottlieb 2y ago
      I wasn't trying to be pithy. My most recent understanding is that a lot of EU countries have been cutting their research funding and attacking their universities.
- ty6853 2y ago
  Then the EU will have to make visas easier to get. Immigrants flocked to the USA for high wages and accessible visa or open enough border that they knew once they made it 100 miles in there was only 1% chance they get locked up to die in an immigration camp in central America. The EU still has both those barriers, that many of their countries guard their work permits more fiercely than their own balls, and their wages are lower than places like Dubai with far easier to get work visa. If the EU isn't careful their cake will be stolen by authoritarian places like Singapore and Dubai that have comparatively free trade and easy work permits.
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - joquarky 2y ago
      >This is pure, undistilled bullshit. Please don't turn HN into Reddit.
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    It's easier to get a work visa or employment based permanent residency in most EU countries than in the US. Partly because there are no quotas for higher-end work visas or permanent residency permits. And partly because the EU does not have a large number of illegal immigrants available for lower-end jobs. Imagine that H-1Bs would be available in unlimited quantities any time of the year, as long as you meet the minimum requirements. And that the H-1B would be extended to a green card after a few years, assuming the authorities don't find anything too bad in the background checks. That's how it works in the EU. European countries are generally more protectionist about working class jobs than professional jobs. If you have the education, skills, and experience, they assume that your presence would be good for the economy. And the citizens don't really complain. I guess a major reason is that the primary identities are national, while legal rights are EU-wide. If there are already hundreds of millions of foreigners who could apply for the same jobs, who cares about a small number of additional immigrants.
    - 2y ago
- diffxx 2y ago
  Every EU nation should be thinking about how to fast track and incentivize American immigration.
  - dkkergoog 2y ago
    [flagged]
- rdtsc 2y ago
  I am assuming that's pretty easy? Just apply to an EU university or job?
k2enemy 2y ago
https://archive.is/GFzWi https://archive.is/GFzWi
breakingrules3 2y ago
[dead]
FirmwareBurner 2y ago
>On Feb. 16, customs officials detained her at Logan International Airport in Boston for failing to declare samples of frog embryos she had carried from France at the request of her boss at Harvard. Big fuck up on her boss here. You don't send your immigrant workers on a visa (especially from countries currently involved in a war) to be mules for you, since their visas can always be cancelled for any reason, so why are you putting them in situations where they can give authorities a reason? How do they not know this? What were they thinking? Either go yourself or send someone else who's a citizen. The lack of thought in this just boggles my mind. Also, where's the self preservation on her part, especially given her via situation and the situation in her country? When I as an immigrant traveled for work with hardware prototypes , I always made sure my boss had them in his luggage since he's a citizen with a more powerful passport and I don't want to be flagged by border controls on what's a foreigner doing with strange hardware in his luggage. You don't just accept to be a mule for your employer when you're an immigrant on a visa since then you're just playing Russian roulette(pun not intended). If I were a Russian citizen on a visa abroad right now, I'd do everything in my power to lay low, fly under the radar and avoid all unnecessary travel, or travel with only pajamas and a toothbrush, not with animal embryos. I guess biology scientists are so used to travelling with weird shit all the time, they just forget to declare it. Edit: @downvoters, do you have any arguments to add?
- slibhb 2y ago
  You're probably right that it was a fuck-up. But given that she was carrying frog embryos and not something illegal I don't understand why the government would revoke her visa. Just give her a warning and move on.
  - zamalek 2y ago
    > I don't understand why the government would revoke her visa The current make up of the executive, congress, the senate, and the judiciary.
    - genpop 2y ago
      All of which gen pop sits on their hands and enables. I don’t see them in the street protesting for universal healthcare until it happens. The public is nihilistic until their jobs are threatened, even then a single weekend warrior protest and back to the office. The sort of indifference for others until the issue hits home is endemic in America; see Republicans who hate gays until a niece or nephew comes out the closet. Sad, sad, people Politicians come from American communities, families, schools… it’s a shame so many live with the stress of the cognitive dissonance of their lack of effort and their projection of empty platitudes and memes about themselves
quelup 2y ago
The article left me with a couple questions - is cancelling a visa for not declaring something like frog embryos normal protocol? Does ICE have evidence that not declaring them was intentional? In any case, I really hope she doesn't get deported. If it was just a mistake, this seems like an abuse of power.
- burkaman 2y ago
  > Such an infraction is normally considered minor, punishable with a fine of up to $500. I'm also wondering how you are supposed to declare something like this. They don't pass out those customs forms on flights from Europe anymore, you just go through immigration and the officer asks whatever questions they feel like. In my case the only question was "did you buy anything".
  - antonkochubey 2y ago
    Normally, when you are leaving the baggage claim area, there are two customs corridors - green one for people who have nothing to declare, and red for people who wish to make a customs declaration.
    - burkaman 2y ago
      It's hard to know exactly what happened here, but it sounds like she was confronted before she even got to that step. > Then, as she headed toward the baggage claim, a Border Patrol officer approached her and asked to search her suitcase. I'm sure there is something she was supposed to do if her lawyer is acknowledging she violated some regulation, I just have no idea what it would be.
      - blagie 2y ago
        Typically, the customs declaration is filled out on the airplane. This can be done through a mobile app (which most frequent travelers do), in which case, customs might have it before you've even left the plane. If it's done on paper, this is done at the passport check, before you've picked up your checked luggage, and well before picking a customs lane. I've certainly been randomly chosen for a screening, and when that happened, a customs agent went up to me (deliberately) shortly after I got my luggage. I forget why, but they have flags for suspicious behavior. I think it might have been because I came back with one more bag than I left with, or some intermediate destination. There are also, in some airports, customs dogs sniffing things between luggage pickup and customs who can also flag for screens. So none of this sounds too unusual to me, except for the final step: being shipped off to a detention center. I've never brought in anything improper, but I know people who came to the US with illicit food. The outcome was: 1) A rather serious fine 2) Being screened literally every time they passed into the US The second was more obnoxious. Every time they came into the US for at least the next half-decade, customs would unpack their bags.
rdtsc 2y ago
> “Messages on her phone revealed she planned to smuggle the materials through customs without declaring them. She knowingly broke the law and took deliberate steps to evade it.” Wonder what the wording is. If it is more like "-I am brining the embryos", "-ok" it will be hard to prove it. Or if it's more like "It's illegal, don't declare them, look at the customs people smile but don't smile or stare too much". They still managed to ruin her life of course over it. And I agree with another downvoted poster currently that this was a fuckup on her boss. It's not like he didn't know the current environment. If you hold a J-1 or F-1 visa you don't want to be traveling and crossing any US borders if you can avoid it. It wasn't safe years ago, and it's even more unsafe now. Just going to France to see a performance doesn't seem like an appropriate risk. Doing anything illegal at all, and you're now in jeopardy. You're essentially at the mercy of the State Dept to revoke your visa at any time. If you have lawyers you can fix it in court, but I that is a major uphill battle.
djohnston 2y ago
[flagged]
- hyperhello 2y ago
  The problem with this is that many areas of the law, such as immigration, are very much gray areas by design, or to put it more nicely, gentlemen's agreements. The understanding is that someone is making a major personal investment in coming to this country and living and working here. It's up to both sides to be reasonable and stick to the plan. Here, one side is viciously and vocally breaking all the agreements because they aren't personally benefiting by the terms of their office.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    This is why IMO the American system is even worse than the bribe method in a lot of countries. DHS employees by and large cannot be bribed. It is a serious offense, and both the receiver and payer will be brutally punished. So immigration officers have literally no incentive to help you. Nothing good happens to them if they process your case or help you. Something good may happen to them if they brutalize you because prosecutions are good for their reviews for promotion. Whenever things end up like this it is good to take a step back and realize people by and large are people. The guy in Honduras letting someone in for slipping a $20 isn't much different than the CBP guy in America who ships a guy off for CECOT for having a soccer tattoo. You can't fix this system until there is something in it for the officer enforcing it. They need some mechanism for legal bribery, like a reward for letting in and keeping good people or to just straight up legalize people paying off immigration so that normal people get all the benefit drug traffickers already do.
- ipython 2y ago
  Don't worry, you have undoubtedly violated several statutes today alone. When there is no due process for your "enemies", there is no due process for anyone.
  - djohnston 2y ago
CalChris 2y ago
Harvard, anti-Putin Russian. Yeah, this was about frog legs.
hyeonwho4 2y ago
This kind of "smuggling" or failure to declare live specimens is very common in biological research on. This is the third time I've heard of international collaborations playing fast and loose with the law. (The other two were finding ways to send live samples by mail.)
- Gunnerhead 2y ago
  Why? To reduce paperwork?

169 points by xnx 2y ago

Time for research to move to the EU. No point getting involved in the trouble that is the US these days with little tyrants everywhere.

dkkergoog 2y ago
[dead]
georgemcbay 2y ago
Yup. The brain drain driven by the dumpster-fire Trump administration is going to be immense, and it won't be confined to just immigrants.
soraminazuki 2y ago
Calling them little tyrants is an understatement when the far right is repositioning America to be a major threat to the free world.
- ipython 2y ago
  Belittling them is the only approach that will work. They have such a thin skin and fragile egos that making logical arguments, following procedure, or addressing this via well established "norms" just results in them getting their rocks off on telling you to F off. See [0] just as one example of many. On the other hand, pointing out the lunacy of their actions, their hypocrisy, and malice through satire, parody and straight up bullying is the only way to truly break through the shell they've built around that fragile ego they're carrying around. Just my opinion. [0] https://shop.gop.com/products/liberal-tears-mug https://shop.gop.com/products/liberal-tears-mug
  - windex 2y ago
    Satire gets under their skin real fast.
  - soraminazuki 2y ago
    They're not bound by shame, so belittlement won't stop them either. Satire and parody is great, but it shouldn't downplay the risk given the stakes.
  - dontlaugh 2y ago
    Historically, guns are the only approach that works.
eli_gottlieb 2y ago
There's research funding in the EU?
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  That would still have been pithy a couple months ago, but at this point it might not be long before the reverse of that question applies.
  - eli_gottlieb 2y ago
    I wasn't trying to be pithy. My most recent understanding is that a lot of EU countries have been cutting their research funding and attacking their universities.
ty6853 2y ago
Then the EU will have to make visas easier to get. Immigrants flocked to the USA for high wages and accessible visa or open enough border that they knew once they made it 100 miles in there was only 1% chance they get locked up to die in an immigration camp in central America. The EU still has both those barriers, that many of their countries guard their work permits more fiercely than their own balls, and their wages are lower than places like Dubai with far easier to get work visa. If the EU isn't careful their cake will be stolen by authoritarian places like Singapore and Dubai that have comparatively free trade and easy work permits.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - joquarky 2y ago
    >This is pure, undistilled bullshit. Please don't turn HN into Reddit.
- jltsiren 2y ago
  It's easier to get a work visa or employment based permanent residency in most EU countries than in the US. Partly because there are no quotas for higher-end work visas or permanent residency permits. And partly because the EU does not have a large number of illegal immigrants available for lower-end jobs. Imagine that H-1Bs would be available in unlimited quantities any time of the year, as long as you meet the minimum requirements. And that the H-1B would be extended to a green card after a few years, assuming the authorities don't find anything too bad in the background checks. That's how it works in the EU. European countries are generally more protectionist about working class jobs than professional jobs. If you have the education, skills, and experience, they assume that your presence would be good for the economy. And the citizens don't really complain. I guess a major reason is that the primary identities are national, while legal rights are EU-wide. If there are already hundreds of millions of foreigners who could apply for the same jobs, who cares about a small number of additional immigrants.
  - 2y ago
diffxx 2y ago
Every EU nation should be thinking about how to fast track and incentivize American immigration.
- dkkergoog 2y ago
  [flagged]
rdtsc 2y ago
I am assuming that's pretty easy? Just apply to an EU university or job?

k2enemy 2y ago

https://archive.is/GFzWi https://archive.is/GFzWi

breakingrules3 2y ago

[dead]

FirmwareBurner 2y ago

>On Feb. 16, customs officials detained her at Logan International Airport in Boston for failing to declare samples of frog embryos she had carried from France at the request of her boss at Harvard. Big fuck up on her boss here. You don't send your immigrant workers on a visa (especially from countries currently involved in a war) to be mules for you, since their visas can always be cancelled for any reason, so why are you putting them in situations where they can give authorities a reason? How do they not know this? What were they thinking? Either go yourself or send someone else who's a citizen. The lack of thought in this just boggles my mind. Also, where's the self preservation on her part, especially given her via situation and the situation in her country? When I as an immigrant traveled for work with hardware prototypes , I always made sure my boss had them in his luggage since he's a citizen with a more powerful passport and I don't want to be flagged by border controls on what's a foreigner doing with strange hardware in his luggage. You don't just accept to be a mule for your employer when you're an immigrant on a visa since then you're just playing Russian roulette(pun not intended). If I were a Russian citizen on a visa abroad right now, I'd do everything in my power to lay low, fly under the radar and avoid all unnecessary travel, or travel with only pajamas and a toothbrush, not with animal embryos. I guess biology scientists are so used to travelling with weird shit all the time, they just forget to declare it. Edit: @downvoters, do you have any arguments to add?

slibhb 2y ago
You're probably right that it was a fuck-up. But given that she was carrying frog embryos and not something illegal I don't understand why the government would revoke her visa. Just give her a warning and move on.
- zamalek 2y ago
  > I don't understand why the government would revoke her visa The current make up of the executive, congress, the senate, and the judiciary.
  - genpop 2y ago
    All of which gen pop sits on their hands and enables. I don’t see them in the street protesting for universal healthcare until it happens. The public is nihilistic until their jobs are threatened, even then a single weekend warrior protest and back to the office. The sort of indifference for others until the issue hits home is endemic in America; see Republicans who hate gays until a niece or nephew comes out the closet. Sad, sad, people Politicians come from American communities, families, schools… it’s a shame so many live with the stress of the cognitive dissonance of their lack of effort and their projection of empty platitudes and memes about themselves

quelup 2y ago

The article left me with a couple questions - is cancelling a visa for not declaring something like frog embryos normal protocol? Does ICE have evidence that not declaring them was intentional? In any case, I really hope she doesn't get deported. If it was just a mistake, this seems like an abuse of power.

burkaman 2y ago
> Such an infraction is normally considered minor, punishable with a fine of up to $500. I'm also wondering how you are supposed to declare something like this. They don't pass out those customs forms on flights from Europe anymore, you just go through immigration and the officer asks whatever questions they feel like. In my case the only question was "did you buy anything".
- antonkochubey 2y ago
  Normally, when you are leaving the baggage claim area, there are two customs corridors - green one for people who have nothing to declare, and red for people who wish to make a customs declaration.
  - burkaman 2y ago
    It's hard to know exactly what happened here, but it sounds like she was confronted before she even got to that step. > Then, as she headed toward the baggage claim, a Border Patrol officer approached her and asked to search her suitcase. I'm sure there is something she was supposed to do if her lawyer is acknowledging she violated some regulation, I just have no idea what it would be.
    - blagie 2y ago
      Typically, the customs declaration is filled out on the airplane. This can be done through a mobile app (which most frequent travelers do), in which case, customs might have it before you've even left the plane. If it's done on paper, this is done at the passport check, before you've picked up your checked luggage, and well before picking a customs lane. I've certainly been randomly chosen for a screening, and when that happened, a customs agent went up to me (deliberately) shortly after I got my luggage. I forget why, but they have flags for suspicious behavior. I think it might have been because I came back with one more bag than I left with, or some intermediate destination. There are also, in some airports, customs dogs sniffing things between luggage pickup and customs who can also flag for screens. So none of this sounds too unusual to me, except for the final step: being shipped off to a detention center. I've never brought in anything improper, but I know people who came to the US with illicit food. The outcome was: 1) A rather serious fine 2) Being screened literally every time they passed into the US The second was more obnoxious. Every time they came into the US for at least the next half-decade, customs would unpack their bags.

rdtsc 2y ago

> “Messages on her phone revealed she planned to smuggle the materials through customs without declaring them. She knowingly broke the law and took deliberate steps to evade it.” Wonder what the wording is. If it is more like "-I am brining the embryos", "-ok" it will be hard to prove it. Or if it's more like "It's illegal, don't declare them, look at the customs people smile but don't smile or stare too much". They still managed to ruin her life of course over it. And I agree with another downvoted poster currently that this was a fuckup on her boss. It's not like he didn't know the current environment. If you hold a J-1 or F-1 visa you don't want to be traveling and crossing any US borders if you can avoid it. It wasn't safe years ago, and it's even more unsafe now. Just going to France to see a performance doesn't seem like an appropriate risk. Doing anything illegal at all, and you're now in jeopardy. You're essentially at the mercy of the State Dept to revoke your visa at any time. If you have lawyers you can fix it in court, but I that is a major uphill battle.

djohnston 2y ago

[flagged]

hyperhello 2y ago
The problem with this is that many areas of the law, such as immigration, are very much gray areas by design, or to put it more nicely, gentlemen's agreements. The understanding is that someone is making a major personal investment in coming to this country and living and working here. It's up to both sides to be reasonable and stick to the plan. Here, one side is viciously and vocally breaking all the agreements because they aren't personally benefiting by the terms of their office.
- ty6853 2y ago
  This is why IMO the American system is even worse than the bribe method in a lot of countries. DHS employees by and large cannot be bribed. It is a serious offense, and both the receiver and payer will be brutally punished. So immigration officers have literally no incentive to help you. Nothing good happens to them if they process your case or help you. Something good may happen to them if they brutalize you because prosecutions are good for their reviews for promotion. Whenever things end up like this it is good to take a step back and realize people by and large are people. The guy in Honduras letting someone in for slipping a $20 isn't much different than the CBP guy in America who ships a guy off for CECOT for having a soccer tattoo. You can't fix this system until there is something in it for the officer enforcing it. They need some mechanism for legal bribery, like a reward for letting in and keeping good people or to just straight up legalize people paying off immigration so that normal people get all the benefit drug traffickers already do.
ipython 2y ago
Don't worry, you have undoubtedly violated several statutes today alone. When there is no due process for your "enemies", there is no due process for anyone.
- djohnston 2y ago

CalChris 2y ago

Harvard, anti-Putin Russian. Yeah, this was about frog legs.

hyeonwho4 2y ago

This kind of "smuggling" or failure to declare live specimens is very common in biological research on. This is the third time I've heard of international collaborations playing fast and loose with the law. (The other two were finding ways to send live samples by mail.)

Gunnerhead 2y ago
Why? To reduce paperwork?