6 ms·

>we do waste a ton of money on consultants I bet the median skill of a Deloitte consultant is higher than that of the average government office worker.

Drunkfoowl 1y ago
[dead]
dwater 1y ago
The trend for decades has been shrinking the public workforce and replacing them with contractors, because Republicans have said that the private sector is more efficient. So the average government office worker is not a tech, they are a contract officer. The government does not have these skills internally at the level necessary, if they want this work done they have to contract it out. And if these contracts get cancelled that money will get spent with another contractor, and given how this administration has been acting it will a contractor that bends the knee and not one that the president has publicly voiced animosity for.
- atonse 1y ago
  Yes but do you really believe Deloitte isn’t showering them with bribes and bending the knee to keep these contracts? It’s not about who bends and who doesn’t. They all will. Even Tim Cook who famously wears his politics on his sleeve has completely bent the knee to Trump. Money talks.
  - dwater 1y ago
    Yes, the president has made it clear through his actions that $1m will make him reconsider who's an enemy and who's a friend and any corporation that hasn't made a donation yet is probably calculating what the ROI would be and how big a donation to make.
    - seanicus 1y ago
      Wait are you telling me that Dana White was put on the board for Meta as a favor and not his incredible social media acumen?
- ch4s3 1y ago
  The size of the federal workforce has been remarkably stable for decades[1]. It hasn't dipped below 2.7 million since 1967 ad only recently cracked 3 million again. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001
  - 3D30497420 1y ago
    And in 1970 the US population was 203 million compared to 340 million now.
    - ch4s3 1y ago
      The comment above wasn't about per capita reductions.
InDubioProRubio 1y ago
Usually, they recruit government office workers into this? They acquire domain knowledge in endless drudgery, then get a pay upgrade and get rehired as consultant? The whole machinery becomes a whole level more inefficient. Van der Leyen was famous for squandering german defense budget to mc kinsey and co - who poached heads from the german rearmament office. National Defense related industries should be in general forbidden to hire consultants.
- whimsicalism 1y ago
  no, in the US consultants are mostly just a backdoor for governments to hire actually competent people at payscales that are illegal for the government to use and with competitive interview processes that are also illegal for the government to use.
ijustlovemath 1y ago
Perhaps, but the profit motivation is completely different. One's there to serve and the other to bill hours.
- s1artibartfast 1y ago
  Both are there to collect a check. One can get fired for doing nothing and the other cant.
  - ijustlovemath 1y ago
    I'd counter that the cost to the American taxpayer is far less when you avoid the consultant upcharge, all else being equal.
    - s1artibartfast 1y ago
      Perhaps, but that is an entirely independent claim from the idea that government employees are passionate self sacrificers
- aerostable_slug 1y ago
  Based on my personal experience and that of many others I know, that's about as wrong as one can get. A great many government workers are there to collect a paycheck and go home (just like many other people working for many other employers). Their commitment to 'the mission' hovers near zero. Just ask them. Where do people get these crazy ideas about government employees? There are some wonderful people in public service, but it's not some Wonkaland of saints who toil just to help others and do the right thing.
  - ijustlovemath 1y ago
    Personally, I get this from my interactions with the reviewers at the FDA. Absolutely buried in work, always make the best effort to improve your submission, etc.
masfuerte 1y ago
No chance. The median consultant is a fresh graduate. The median government office worker actually knows something.
- whimsicalism 1y ago
  I have met plenty of fresh graduates who know more and are much more productive than older people.
  - pasc1878 1y ago
    I have met many new consultants. Most were less productive than experienced people. There are exceptions but few.
    - whimsicalism 1y ago
      Generally I have been found "experience" to be highly overrated and companies that lean harder on it to be typically legacy/declining/european companies.
  - nyarlathotep_ 1y ago
    When I worked as a consultant, the majority of the work was done by younger/less tenured/lower-level people. The skill balance (actual, tangible IT/software skill) was heavily in favor of the "younger" (as above). Most of the managers/those in supervisory roles were busy "showing impact" and "aligning cross-functional teams".
    - whimsicalism 1y ago
      unlike the other reply, this is a an accurate description of consulting dynamics.
ebiester 1y ago
I would take that bet. First, government office workers have a higher bar to entry. While I've heard criticism of them being myopic, it was rarely that they were lacking intelligence. Deloitte consultants have a much wider variance. They too are capped on how much they can be paid, but they do not get the benefits of government service (e.g. pensions.) They are shuffled from subcontractor to subcontractor and the project managers are more obsessed with extracting more money from the department than finishing the project. The incentives are so misaligned as to be comical.
- whimsicalism 1y ago
  As someone who has worked in the federal government, alongside other federal workers and deloitte consultants, you would lose this bet undoubtedly. "higher bar to entry" -> true civil service style testing for jobs is basically illegal in the feds and they have to give massive preferences to various interest groups.
whimsicalism 1y ago
You are absolutely right. As someone who has worked in government, the replies to you seem hopelessly optimistic about the average government worker.. it seems like many really cannot comprehend? the gulf in capability.
burkaman 1y ago
Why? That seems completely wrong, based on my experience with both of these groups.

Drunkfoowl 1y ago

[dead]

dwater 1y ago

The trend for decades has been shrinking the public workforce and replacing them with contractors, because Republicans have said that the private sector is more efficient. So the average government office worker is not a tech, they are a contract officer. The government does not have these skills internally at the level necessary, if they want this work done they have to contract it out. And if these contracts get cancelled that money will get spent with another contractor, and given how this administration has been acting it will a contractor that bends the knee and not one that the president has publicly voiced animosity for.

atonse 1y ago
Yes but do you really believe Deloitte isn’t showering them with bribes and bending the knee to keep these contracts? It’s not about who bends and who doesn’t. They all will. Even Tim Cook who famously wears his politics on his sleeve has completely bent the knee to Trump. Money talks.
- dwater 1y ago
  Yes, the president has made it clear through his actions that $1m will make him reconsider who's an enemy and who's a friend and any corporation that hasn't made a donation yet is probably calculating what the ROI would be and how big a donation to make.
  - seanicus 1y ago
    Wait are you telling me that Dana White was put on the board for Meta as a favor and not his incredible social media acumen?
ch4s3 1y ago
The size of the federal workforce has been remarkably stable for decades[1]. It hasn't dipped below 2.7 million since 1967 ad only recently cracked 3 million again. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001
- 3D30497420 1y ago
  And in 1970 the US population was 203 million compared to 340 million now.
  - ch4s3 1y ago
    The comment above wasn't about per capita reductions.

InDubioProRubio 1y ago

Usually, they recruit government office workers into this? They acquire domain knowledge in endless drudgery, then get a pay upgrade and get rehired as consultant? The whole machinery becomes a whole level more inefficient. Van der Leyen was famous for squandering german defense budget to mc kinsey and co - who poached heads from the german rearmament office. National Defense related industries should be in general forbidden to hire consultants.

whimsicalism 1y ago
no, in the US consultants are mostly just a backdoor for governments to hire actually competent people at payscales that are illegal for the government to use and with competitive interview processes that are also illegal for the government to use.

ijustlovemath 1y ago

Perhaps, but the profit motivation is completely different. One's there to serve and the other to bill hours.

s1artibartfast 1y ago
Both are there to collect a check. One can get fired for doing nothing and the other cant.
- ijustlovemath 1y ago
  I'd counter that the cost to the American taxpayer is far less when you avoid the consultant upcharge, all else being equal.
  - s1artibartfast 1y ago
    Perhaps, but that is an entirely independent claim from the idea that government employees are passionate self sacrificers
aerostable_slug 1y ago
Based on my personal experience and that of many others I know, that's about as wrong as one can get. A great many government workers are there to collect a paycheck and go home (just like many other people working for many other employers). Their commitment to 'the mission' hovers near zero. Just ask them. Where do people get these crazy ideas about government employees? There are some wonderful people in public service, but it's not some Wonkaland of saints who toil just to help others and do the right thing.
- ijustlovemath 1y ago
  Personally, I get this from my interactions with the reviewers at the FDA. Absolutely buried in work, always make the best effort to improve your submission, etc.

masfuerte 1y ago

No chance. The median consultant is a fresh graduate. The median government office worker actually knows something.

whimsicalism 1y ago
I have met plenty of fresh graduates who know more and are much more productive than older people.
- pasc1878 1y ago
  I have met many new consultants. Most were less productive than experienced people. There are exceptions but few.
  - whimsicalism 1y ago
    Generally I have been found "experience" to be highly overrated and companies that lean harder on it to be typically legacy/declining/european companies.
- nyarlathotep_ 1y ago
  When I worked as a consultant, the majority of the work was done by younger/less tenured/lower-level people. The skill balance (actual, tangible IT/software skill) was heavily in favor of the "younger" (as above). Most of the managers/those in supervisory roles were busy "showing impact" and "aligning cross-functional teams".
  - whimsicalism 1y ago
    unlike the other reply, this is a an accurate description of consulting dynamics.

ebiester 1y ago

I would take that bet. First, government office workers have a higher bar to entry. While I've heard criticism of them being myopic, it was rarely that they were lacking intelligence. Deloitte consultants have a much wider variance. They too are capped on how much they can be paid, but they do not get the benefits of government service (e.g. pensions.) They are shuffled from subcontractor to subcontractor and the project managers are more obsessed with extracting more money from the department than finishing the project. The incentives are so misaligned as to be comical.

whimsicalism 1y ago
As someone who has worked in the federal government, alongside other federal workers and deloitte consultants, you would lose this bet undoubtedly. "higher bar to entry" -> true civil service style testing for jobs is basically illegal in the feds and they have to give massive preferences to various interest groups.

whimsicalism 1y ago

You are absolutely right. As someone who has worked in government, the replies to you seem hopelessly optimistic about the average government worker.. it seems like many really cannot comprehend? the gulf in capability.

burkaman 1y ago

Why? That seems completely wrong, based on my experience with both of these groups.