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Did you know, the world still mines more lead now than it did 50 years ago, at the peak of 'put lead in everything' mania? To me, this says that we still put l

Did you know, the world still mines more lead now than it did 50 years ago, at the peak of 'put lead in everything' mania? To me, this says that we still put lead in too many things. Lead is still used for flashing in roofs. It's still used as a mould release when making plastics. It's still used in making dishware. It's still used in bullets. It's still used for all kinds of things which will one day end up in the environment and someone's drinking water.

deadbabe 2y ago
When I posted here about how lead pipes during the Roman Empire was bad for the people I was met with a torrent of downvotes right here on Hackernews saying it wasn’t that bad. I’m not optimistic about the future.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Gigachad 2y ago
  I feel the same about leaded solder for hobby electronics.
  - alnwlsn 2y ago
    At least leaded soldering wire is mostly contained in a large chunk, but I really don't like leaded solder paste. Which is like leaded peanut butter, and easily spread around. All the new parts are designed based on a lead free process anyways, so you might as well get used to working with lead-free solder to begin with.
    - djmips 2y ago
      Unless you work on vintage gear...
- apercu 2y ago
  I'm sure that contributed to some of the insanity, but they also cooked down wine in lead pots (sapa or defrutum) which caused lead to leach and act as a sweetener. I think they also used this in cooking but this is all from memory so trust but verify!
  - foobarian 2y ago
    IIRC they also used lead acetate as a sweetener. It boggles my mind that using enough of that to noticeably impact the flavor of food did not instantly kill people. Meanwhile here we are talking about micrograms!
- philjohn 2y ago
  To be fair lead pipes aren't good, but the other uses in the Roman Empire were probably the cause of far more of the issues. Especially with hard water (of which the water in Rome is VERY hard[1] today, and if similar sources are used, it stands to reason it was very hard way back when) it forms a scale that drastically reduces the amount that leeches into the water. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-water-hardness-of-Italian-tap-water-Classification-is-presented-in-the-legend_fig6_231520556 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-water-hardness-of...
  - albedoa 2y ago
    That is exactly what people told him at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43231697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43231697 He is being dishonest.
    - throwanem 2y ago
      If you must lie, be less bad at it. From the paper [1] she read and you didn't: > It is now universally accepted that utilization of lead for domestic purposes and water distribution presents a major health hazard. The ancient Roman world was unaware of these risks. How far the gigantic network of lead pipes used in ancient Rome compromised public health in the city is unknown...[Lead isotopes in sediments from the harbor of Imperial Rome] demonstrate that the lead pipes of the water distribution system increased [lead] contents in drinking water of the capital city by up to two orders of magnitude over the natural background. The [lead] isotope record shows that the discontinuities in the pollution of the Tiber by lead are intimately entwined with the major issues affecting Late Antique Rome and its water distribution system. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1400097111 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1400097111
      - albedoa 2y ago
        ...what? Did you mean to respond to me? I'm the one exposing the lie. There's a weird trend on here of karma chasers playing "gotcha" by posting rebuttals to things that literally nobody is claiming and hoping that we don't notice. It's fucking pathetic man. What would it take for you to reevaluate your life.
- mystraline 2y ago
  The lead pipes was probably a miniscule amount of overall lead. The ancient romans added lead acetate Pb(CH3COO)2 to their foods and wine. I can't understate just how much 'lead sugar' was being consumed. By the way, in my later years, I did make a voluntary choice to taste it, and then rinse my mouth out. And yes, it was the closest we have to table sugar Ive ever tasted. Before anyone naysays me, I did this knowing full well the risks. Also fast forward 1700 years,and we see the same reaction. In the 1950s USA, you could buy lead-rimmed coffee cups. The interaction between the coffee, the lead, and your mouth created the sensation of sweetness, likely also lead acetate.
theandrewbailey 2y ago
In my mind, there's only two acceptable uses of lead: radiation (x-ray, gamma ray) shielding, and ICE batteries. Even then, I expect there's much increased demand for those things (and thus, the lead to manufacture them) from 50 years ago.
- londons_explore 2y ago
  Even ICE batteries is IMO not a valid use. Lithium batteries are better by almost every metric, and now nearly every model of car battery has a drop-in compatible lithium battery+controller too, so there isn't even an excuse for vehicles currently on the road. Lead batteries contain not just lead, but the H2SO4 needed to dissolve large amounts of it and transport it through watercourses when the plastic case inevitably cracks.
  - alnwlsn 2y ago
    No, but they are dead simple aren't they? Charging them is easy. They can handle super high discharge rates no problem. Construction is simple, only lead, sulfuric acid, and plastic. The materials are cheap, abundant, and recyclable. The battery chemistry is old and well understood. They aren't made from flammable materials, and if one does catch on fire, you can extinguish it using a normal fire extinguisher. They work well at low temperatures, and can be put in storage long term fully charged. About the only downside is they can make hydrogen if overcharged, and are heavy. Too bad they use lead, because it would be too good to be true otherwise. You have to treat lithium batteries like a spoiled child in comparison.
  - steve_adams_86 2y ago
    Lead acid batteries still offer far better performance in cold conditions, voltage stability, burst current capacity, and ease of charging. You can overcome most of these issues, but it comes at a significant cost. I think it could be worth it, especially when you factor in that the lithium ion battery could theoretically pay for itself in longer lifespan, but most buyers would prefer the cheap, familiar, reliable option.
  - dboreham 2y ago
Braxton1980 2y ago
We need more government regulations and enforcement to solve this problem. There's no other solution in a capitalist environment
- krapp 2y ago
  The US is probably going to put more lead into everything because RFK Jr believes it builds character or something.
  - ifyoubuildit 2y ago
    His whole thing is about environmental toxins probably being the cause of most of our problems, so no that doesn't seem likely.
    - mort96 2y ago
      Has he specifically included lead in a list of "toxins"? If not, "toxins" is such a vague term that it can include or exclude just about anything.
    - Avshalom 2y ago
      https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2025/04/11/cdc-denies-milwaukee-request-for-help-with-mps-lead-poisoning-crisis/83033453007/ https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2025/04/11/cdc-denies-mi... Yeah, about that.
    - Fomite 2y ago
      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/milwaukee-schools-lead-poisoning-cdc-denies-help/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/milwaukee-schools-lead-poisonin... This aged wildly poorly.
      - sethammons 2y ago
        Better link? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-hhs-layoffs-cdc-lead-poisoning/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-hhs-layoffs-cdc-lead-poi... TL;DR: RFK has cut health programs including the division that deals with lead poisoning. The first link is about that choice's fallout on school children exposed to lead. Yay blanket federal cuts.
alnwlsn 2y ago
Don't forget about lead in brass and free-machining steel. Got a normal metal? Now it has lead.
refurb 2y ago
Many of those uses of lead don't end up in the environment. Lead is actually quite inert when in metal form - it develops an oxide/carbonate layer and there is little erosion. Metal in bullets is pretty inert and shooting ranges filter air before exhausting it (as dust is formed from impact). As for lead in plastic manufacturing or dishware, that's mostly a matter of buying wisely. As it tends to be used in less developed markets.
- sethammons 2y ago
  > shooting ranges filter air before exhausting it (as dust is formed from impact). Where do you live? I have never shot a gun indoors. Every range I have been to is open air. Multiple states, including California.
  - mrWiz 2y ago
    Around here the biggest issue is duck hunting, where the pellets almost certainly wind up directly in a wetland.
    - refurb 2y ago
      But lead pellets don’t leech lead?
  - refurb 2y ago
    All over. There are multiple indoor ranges in almost every state. It’s hard to have an outdoor gun range in an urban environment!
abracadaniel 2y ago
I didn’t know about the flashing. Lots of people use rail barrels that fill from a downspout to water their gardens. I wonder what kind of lead exposure that could create.

deadbabe 2y ago

When I posted here about how lead pipes during the Roman Empire was bad for the people I was met with a torrent of downvotes right here on Hackernews saying it wasn’t that bad. I’m not optimistic about the future.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Gigachad 2y ago
I feel the same about leaded solder for hobby electronics.
- alnwlsn 2y ago
  At least leaded soldering wire is mostly contained in a large chunk, but I really don't like leaded solder paste. Which is like leaded peanut butter, and easily spread around. All the new parts are designed based on a lead free process anyways, so you might as well get used to working with lead-free solder to begin with.
  - djmips 2y ago
    Unless you work on vintage gear...
apercu 2y ago
I'm sure that contributed to some of the insanity, but they also cooked down wine in lead pots (sapa or defrutum) which caused lead to leach and act as a sweetener. I think they also used this in cooking but this is all from memory so trust but verify!
- foobarian 2y ago
  IIRC they also used lead acetate as a sweetener. It boggles my mind that using enough of that to noticeably impact the flavor of food did not instantly kill people. Meanwhile here we are talking about micrograms!
philjohn 2y ago
To be fair lead pipes aren't good, but the other uses in the Roman Empire were probably the cause of far more of the issues. Especially with hard water (of which the water in Rome is VERY hard[1] today, and if similar sources are used, it stands to reason it was very hard way back when) it forms a scale that drastically reduces the amount that leeches into the water. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-water-hardness-of-Italian-tap-water-Classification-is-presented-in-the-legend_fig6_231520556 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-water-hardness-of...
- albedoa 2y ago
  That is exactly what people told him at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43231697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43231697 He is being dishonest.
  - throwanem 2y ago
    If you must lie, be less bad at it. From the paper [1] she read and you didn't: > It is now universally accepted that utilization of lead for domestic purposes and water distribution presents a major health hazard. The ancient Roman world was unaware of these risks. How far the gigantic network of lead pipes used in ancient Rome compromised public health in the city is unknown...[Lead isotopes in sediments from the harbor of Imperial Rome] demonstrate that the lead pipes of the water distribution system increased [lead] contents in drinking water of the capital city by up to two orders of magnitude over the natural background. The [lead] isotope record shows that the discontinuities in the pollution of the Tiber by lead are intimately entwined with the major issues affecting Late Antique Rome and its water distribution system. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1400097111 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1400097111
    - albedoa 2y ago
      ...what? Did you mean to respond to me? I'm the one exposing the lie. There's a weird trend on here of karma chasers playing "gotcha" by posting rebuttals to things that literally nobody is claiming and hoping that we don't notice. It's fucking pathetic man. What would it take for you to reevaluate your life.
mystraline 2y ago
The lead pipes was probably a miniscule amount of overall lead. The ancient romans added lead acetate Pb(CH3COO)2 to their foods and wine. I can't understate just how much 'lead sugar' was being consumed. By the way, in my later years, I did make a voluntary choice to taste it, and then rinse my mouth out. And yes, it was the closest we have to table sugar Ive ever tasted. Before anyone naysays me, I did this knowing full well the risks. Also fast forward 1700 years,and we see the same reaction. In the 1950s USA, you could buy lead-rimmed coffee cups. The interaction between the coffee, the lead, and your mouth created the sensation of sweetness, likely also lead acetate.

theandrewbailey 2y ago

In my mind, there's only two acceptable uses of lead: radiation (x-ray, gamma ray) shielding, and ICE batteries. Even then, I expect there's much increased demand for those things (and thus, the lead to manufacture them) from 50 years ago.

londons_explore 2y ago
Even ICE batteries is IMO not a valid use. Lithium batteries are better by almost every metric, and now nearly every model of car battery has a drop-in compatible lithium battery+controller too, so there isn't even an excuse for vehicles currently on the road. Lead batteries contain not just lead, but the H2SO4 needed to dissolve large amounts of it and transport it through watercourses when the plastic case inevitably cracks.
- alnwlsn 2y ago
  No, but they are dead simple aren't they? Charging them is easy. They can handle super high discharge rates no problem. Construction is simple, only lead, sulfuric acid, and plastic. The materials are cheap, abundant, and recyclable. The battery chemistry is old and well understood. They aren't made from flammable materials, and if one does catch on fire, you can extinguish it using a normal fire extinguisher. They work well at low temperatures, and can be put in storage long term fully charged. About the only downside is they can make hydrogen if overcharged, and are heavy. Too bad they use lead, because it would be too good to be true otherwise. You have to treat lithium batteries like a spoiled child in comparison.
- steve_adams_86 2y ago
  Lead acid batteries still offer far better performance in cold conditions, voltage stability, burst current capacity, and ease of charging. You can overcome most of these issues, but it comes at a significant cost. I think it could be worth it, especially when you factor in that the lithium ion battery could theoretically pay for itself in longer lifespan, but most buyers would prefer the cheap, familiar, reliable option.
- dboreham 2y ago

Braxton1980 2y ago

We need more government regulations and enforcement to solve this problem. There's no other solution in a capitalist environment

krapp 2y ago
The US is probably going to put more lead into everything because RFK Jr believes it builds character or something.
- ifyoubuildit 2y ago
  His whole thing is about environmental toxins probably being the cause of most of our problems, so no that doesn't seem likely.
  - mort96 2y ago
    Has he specifically included lead in a list of "toxins"? If not, "toxins" is such a vague term that it can include or exclude just about anything.
  - Avshalom 2y ago
    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2025/04/11/cdc-denies-milwaukee-request-for-help-with-mps-lead-poisoning-crisis/83033453007/ https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2025/04/11/cdc-denies-mi... Yeah, about that.
  - Fomite 2y ago
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/milwaukee-schools-lead-poisoning-cdc-denies-help/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/milwaukee-schools-lead-poisonin... This aged wildly poorly.
    - sethammons 2y ago
      Better link? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-hhs-layoffs-cdc-lead-poisoning/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-hhs-layoffs-cdc-lead-poi... TL;DR: RFK has cut health programs including the division that deals with lead poisoning. The first link is about that choice's fallout on school children exposed to lead. Yay blanket federal cuts.

alnwlsn 2y ago

Don't forget about lead in brass and free-machining steel. Got a normal metal? Now it has lead.

refurb 2y ago

Many of those uses of lead don't end up in the environment. Lead is actually quite inert when in metal form - it develops an oxide/carbonate layer and there is little erosion. Metal in bullets is pretty inert and shooting ranges filter air before exhausting it (as dust is formed from impact). As for lead in plastic manufacturing or dishware, that's mostly a matter of buying wisely. As it tends to be used in less developed markets.

sethammons 2y ago
> shooting ranges filter air before exhausting it (as dust is formed from impact). Where do you live? I have never shot a gun indoors. Every range I have been to is open air. Multiple states, including California.
- mrWiz 2y ago
  Around here the biggest issue is duck hunting, where the pellets almost certainly wind up directly in a wetland.
  - refurb 2y ago
    But lead pellets don’t leech lead?
- refurb 2y ago
  All over. There are multiple indoor ranges in almost every state. It’s hard to have an outdoor gun range in an urban environment!

abracadaniel 2y ago

I didn’t know about the flashing. Lots of people use rail barrels that fill from a downspout to water their gardens. I wonder what kind of lead exposure that could create.