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Marketing should use their imagination! Imagine putting dice and random objects (cups, forks..) on a table, pointing your phone at them and asking it to invent

Marketing should use their imagination! Imagine putting dice and random objects (cups, forks..) on a table, pointing your phone at them and asking it to invent a new game for your friends. Tell it to use these objects and also use the live camera as a gameplay element. Or recognizing bird or plant species. Or helping a blind person go hiking, helping avoid tree roots and describing the beautiful scenes they’re in. So much possibility!

wgd 2y ago
How charitable of you to assume those examples work reliably.
- jryle70 2y ago
  Are you willing to bet that it wouldn't work reliably in a year, 2 years, 5 years?
  - pfg_ 2y ago
    If you're releasing something today, should you talk about what it can do now or what it might be able to do in two years?
- jskarpet 2y ago
  Bemyeyes app already work quite reliability to describe scenes to the blind
  - lynx97 2y ago
    Haha, did you evaluate this personally? I did a BeMyEyes test recently, trying to sort about 40 cans according to the existance of a deposit logo. After 90 minutes of submitting photos, and a second round to make sure it doesn't lie too much, I had 16 cans which according to BeMyEyes (OpenAI) had a deposit logo. Then, I went to the shop to bring them back. Turns out, only 4 cans had a logo. So after a second round to eliminate hallucinations, the success rate was only 25%. Do you call that reliable?
    - diggan 2y ago
      > I did a BeMyEyes test recently But isn't the BeMyEyes assisting happening via other humans? I remember signing up for some "when blind people need your help" thing via BeMyEyes and I understood it as it's 100% humans on the other end of the call that will help you.
      - woadwarrior01 2y ago
        That changed a while ago. They also use OpenAI's APIs now. https://openai.com/index/be-my-eyes/ https://openai.com/index/be-my-eyes/
      - lynx97 2y ago
        Yes, what you are describing is how BeMyEyes started, and it still offer that feature. However, somewhere around 1 or 2 years ago, they added a OpenAI vision model based way to send in photos and have them described. In general, its a very nice feature, if it works. For instance, I do use it successfully to sort laundry. But the deposit logo test I did gave horrible results...
notachatbot123 2y ago
> Or helping a blind person go hiking, helping avoid tree roots and describing the beautiful scenes they’re in. "If only you could see, then you could appreciate the beauty of the scenery! Let me describe what are missing out on. I hope your sub-standard experience, as rated by sighted people, is sufficiently adequate to you. May I list more short-comings of your existence in comparison to able people?"
lynx97 2y ago
Blind person here. I can confidently say that vision AIs for navigating the real world are pretty much hype. It is a bandwidth and latency issue. Latency from camera to AI, and bandwidth from device to brain... Please, don't hype accessibility just for your personal fun. There are people out there with real problems, and dangling impossible solutions before their "eyes" is pretty much cruel. > describing the beautiful scenes they’re in And this part is ableism at its best. Do you eally think what people like me are missing are computer generated descriptions of our surroundings, so that we notice the beauty? Reminds me of the Cochlear implant debate some people from the deaf community have. Is my life less interesting because I dont see your colours? Am I a lesser human that needs treatmenet because I dont see your beauty? Me thinks no.
- JohnPrine 2y ago
  Agreed, blind people and sighted people are able to experience different kinds of beauty that are inaccessible to each other. As a sighted person, if there was a technology that could describe the beauty that a blind person experiences in a given moment I would think that would be pretty cool to try. > Please, don't hype accessibility just for your personal fun. There are people out there with real problems, and dangling impossible solutions before their "eyes" is pretty much cruel Do you think it's going to be impossible forever? bandwidth and latency seem like the surest things to improve in AI tech
  - lynx97 2y ago
    I don't know about bandwidth from device to brain. Maybe Neuralink or something similar? It has been tried a lot. I saw the first sonar-alike navigation aid in the early 90s. It basically translated detected obstacles into vibration. Thats where you start to realize that bandwidth is the issue. Because a single, or maybe even a group of, vibrations, doesn't really tell you anything about the nature of the obstacle. Now, we're at a point where vision models (if they dont hallucinate, DANGER!!!) can actually destinguish different obstacles and even describe them. Nice. However, you're pretty much limited to speech synthesis as an information channel. That is not that bad, but very distracting when you move about outside. After all, blind people already use their ears to learn about their surroundings. There isn't much, if any, bandwidth left to stick some constantly chatting voice in. You end up deminishing your actual senses input about the surroundings, which is also dangerous. Nothing beats the turn-around time of your own ears or tactile info you might get from your cane... So, to answer your question: Maybe. I haven't seen a technology that can squeeze some more bandwidth out of the current situation yet.

wgd 2y ago

How charitable of you to assume those examples work reliably.

jryle70 2y ago
Are you willing to bet that it wouldn't work reliably in a year, 2 years, 5 years?
- pfg_ 2y ago
  If you're releasing something today, should you talk about what it can do now or what it might be able to do in two years?
jskarpet 2y ago
Bemyeyes app already work quite reliability to describe scenes to the blind
- lynx97 2y ago
  Haha, did you evaluate this personally? I did a BeMyEyes test recently, trying to sort about 40 cans according to the existance of a deposit logo. After 90 minutes of submitting photos, and a second round to make sure it doesn't lie too much, I had 16 cans which according to BeMyEyes (OpenAI) had a deposit logo. Then, I went to the shop to bring them back. Turns out, only 4 cans had a logo. So after a second round to eliminate hallucinations, the success rate was only 25%. Do you call that reliable?
  - diggan 2y ago
    > I did a BeMyEyes test recently But isn't the BeMyEyes assisting happening via other humans? I remember signing up for some "when blind people need your help" thing via BeMyEyes and I understood it as it's 100% humans on the other end of the call that will help you.
    - woadwarrior01 2y ago
      That changed a while ago. They also use OpenAI's APIs now. https://openai.com/index/be-my-eyes/ https://openai.com/index/be-my-eyes/
    - lynx97 2y ago
      Yes, what you are describing is how BeMyEyes started, and it still offer that feature. However, somewhere around 1 or 2 years ago, they added a OpenAI vision model based way to send in photos and have them described. In general, its a very nice feature, if it works. For instance, I do use it successfully to sort laundry. But the deposit logo test I did gave horrible results...

notachatbot123 2y ago

> Or helping a blind person go hiking, helping avoid tree roots and describing the beautiful scenes they’re in. "If only you could see, then you could appreciate the beauty of the scenery! Let me describe what are missing out on. I hope your sub-standard experience, as rated by sighted people, is sufficiently adequate to you. May I list more short-comings of your existence in comparison to able people?"

lynx97 2y ago

Blind person here. I can confidently say that vision AIs for navigating the real world are pretty much hype. It is a bandwidth and latency issue. Latency from camera to AI, and bandwidth from device to brain... Please, don't hype accessibility just for your personal fun. There are people out there with real problems, and dangling impossible solutions before their "eyes" is pretty much cruel. > describing the beautiful scenes they’re in And this part is ableism at its best. Do you eally think what people like me are missing are computer generated descriptions of our surroundings, so that we notice the beauty? Reminds me of the Cochlear implant debate some people from the deaf community have. Is my life less interesting because I dont see your colours? Am I a lesser human that needs treatmenet because I dont see your beauty? Me thinks no.

JohnPrine 2y ago
Agreed, blind people and sighted people are able to experience different kinds of beauty that are inaccessible to each other. As a sighted person, if there was a technology that could describe the beauty that a blind person experiences in a given moment I would think that would be pretty cool to try. > Please, don't hype accessibility just for your personal fun. There are people out there with real problems, and dangling impossible solutions before their "eyes" is pretty much cruel Do you think it's going to be impossible forever? bandwidth and latency seem like the surest things to improve in AI tech
- lynx97 2y ago
  I don't know about bandwidth from device to brain. Maybe Neuralink or something similar? It has been tried a lot. I saw the first sonar-alike navigation aid in the early 90s. It basically translated detected obstacles into vibration. Thats where you start to realize that bandwidth is the issue. Because a single, or maybe even a group of, vibrations, doesn't really tell you anything about the nature of the obstacle. Now, we're at a point where vision models (if they dont hallucinate, DANGER!!!) can actually destinguish different obstacles and even describe them. Nice. However, you're pretty much limited to speech synthesis as an information channel. That is not that bad, but very distracting when you move about outside. After all, blind people already use their ears to learn about their surroundings. There isn't much, if any, bandwidth left to stick some constantly chatting voice in. You end up deminishing your actual senses input about the surroundings, which is also dangerous. Nothing beats the turn-around time of your own ears or tactile info you might get from your cane... So, to answer your question: Maybe. I haven't seen a technology that can squeeze some more bandwidth out of the current situation yet.