4 ms·

More expensive that driving? My public transport ticket for my whole state costs less than 400EUR, (whole country ~1000) while a car would run me around 6000/ye

More expensive that driving? My public transport ticket for my whole state costs less than 400EUR, (whole country ~1000) while a car would run me around 6000/year, depending on how much I'm driving

herbst 2y ago
I am in Switzerland, public transport ticket is $3500 a year for one person. We are 2 and a dog. It's kinda sad, but a car is the WAY cheaper option for us.
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  Which ticket do you mean? If you're thinking of an adult GA it's actually now ~$4,700/yr :( But, an adult GA is a premium ticket. That buys you unlimited travel on the entire network for a year. Not many travel patterns need that. If you just buy tickets as you need them and especially combined with a Halbtax it's not so bad. Where the crossover between car ownership and using public transport for everything occurs is going to depend a lot on your specific travel patterns and what kind of car you compare to.
  - herbst 2y ago
    That's a lot more than I remember, but doesn't surprise :) You are right tho. If I would live near a bus station that has more than 3 rides a day (which 98% of all Swiss do, rough estimate) I would probably just use a halbtax and a Region specific subscription. But if I use regular SBB tickets for like 10-15 short trips a year you are already getting closer to the GA. Depends on your patterns :)
    - mike_hearn 2y ago
      Hmm what do you define as a short trip? 10 trips/yr at $4700/yr would be $470 per trip, I don't even know how to spend that much by crossing the country: Zurich to Geneva Airport without a halbtax is $114 CHF.
mplewis9z 2y ago
And the average EU country is quite a bit smaller than the average US state, along with the EU being more densely populated - public transit certainly has some artificial/political roadblocks in the US, but it’s also fundamentally more challenging and expensive here.
- vladvasiliu 2y ago
  Even so, at least in France, only major cities have an OK-ish public transit network (when it actually runs). But if you live on the outskirts 'cause you can't afford an apartment in the center? You're SoL. You maybe get a couple buses around rush hour. Hell, even in the Paris region, outside the closest suburbs, there are only a few train lines going into Paris. At best you'll need to ride a bus or two to grab one, but most often you'll take your car.
  - aborsy 2y ago
    Yeah. Public transport works in major metropolitan cities. It doesn’t work outside that.
- rglullis 2y ago
  > EU country is quite a bit smaller than the average US state You don't need to drive cross the whole state for your daily commute, do you? > along with the EU being more densely populated Reversing cause-and-effect, here. Suburban sprawl happens because of the car-centric development, not the other way around.
  - charcircuit 2y ago
    >You don't need to drive cross the whole state for your daily commute, do you? I've done this before in America. It's over twice as cheap to drive than take a train.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      For your commute? Yeah, I can also take a plane from Germany to England and pay less than what it costs me for the taxi that I will need to get to the airport. Does that mean that flying EasyJet should be considered the most efficient means of transportation? What exactly are you trying to argue, here? - That the cost of one train ticket is higher than the cost of a car trip? - For one single passenger or for a family? - In the US or overall? - Are externalities factored in?
IshKebab 2y ago
€6k/year is a crazy price for a car. For me insurance, tax, servicing and depreciation are about £1k/year. And also that's an extremely cheap train ticket. In the UK it would be 10x that easily.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  … Do you get free petrol?
  - cenamus 2y ago
    Fuel, mandatory insurance, yearly service (also mandatory here), highway tolls, parking fees, usually even the parking space at home, in apartments,... Just goes on and on
- CalRobert 2y ago
  That depreciation number is extremely suspicious, unless your car is very old/cheap in which case your service number is suspicious (or you value your time at close to 0 GBP per hour). Also, your car has to park somewhere presumably, which uses land, and I assume your car uses fuel (or electricity, but unlikely if your car is that cheap)
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    I bought it for £12k when it was 3 years old (Skoda Octavia) and I'm hoping it will last 20 years at least. Service is like £200, insurance £230, MOT £50, tax £130 or something. Ok maybe more like £1.3k. Still waaaay less than €6k. Park it on the drive. Yeah I wasn't including fuel costs because they depend on how much you drive. I'm probably about at about £500/year at most (I work from home). When I commuted by car it would have been maybe £1k/year (£10/day but I lift shared).
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      Ah, okay, so the deprecation is more "this is what I imagine the deprecation to be" than anything else. You may expect maintenance costs to... increase as it gets older.
aborsy 2y ago
Nonsense. First, the money is pretaken from your salary under several categories (taxes, social changes, public transportation tax, and occasional taxes for specific lines). Then, a metro monthly pass is around $100 in Paris and $130 in NYC. In other words, after paying through taxes, you have to pay for tickets at market rates. That’s $1200 for city transport, not covering outer zones or intercity travel (unless you live in densely populated cities that have sufficient transportation, in which case you pay in rent). Then, you pay through wasting time, and other factors I mentioned in my other comment.

More expensive that driving? My public transport ticket for my whole state costs less than 400EUR, (whole country ~1000) while a car would run me around 6000/year, depending on how much I'm driving

herbst 2y ago

I am in Switzerland, public transport ticket is $3500 a year for one person. We are 2 and a dog. It's kinda sad, but a car is the WAY cheaper option for us.

mike_hearn 2y ago
Which ticket do you mean? If you're thinking of an adult GA it's actually now ~$4,700/yr :( But, an adult GA is a premium ticket. That buys you unlimited travel on the entire network for a year. Not many travel patterns need that. If you just buy tickets as you need them and especially combined with a Halbtax it's not so bad. Where the crossover between car ownership and using public transport for everything occurs is going to depend a lot on your specific travel patterns and what kind of car you compare to.
- herbst 2y ago
  That's a lot more than I remember, but doesn't surprise :) You are right tho. If I would live near a bus station that has more than 3 rides a day (which 98% of all Swiss do, rough estimate) I would probably just use a halbtax and a Region specific subscription. But if I use regular SBB tickets for like 10-15 short trips a year you are already getting closer to the GA. Depends on your patterns :)
  - mike_hearn 2y ago
    Hmm what do you define as a short trip? 10 trips/yr at $4700/yr would be $470 per trip, I don't even know how to spend that much by crossing the country: Zurich to Geneva Airport without a halbtax is $114 CHF.

mplewis9z 2y ago

And the average EU country is quite a bit smaller than the average US state, along with the EU being more densely populated - public transit certainly has some artificial/political roadblocks in the US, but it’s also fundamentally more challenging and expensive here.

vladvasiliu 2y ago
Even so, at least in France, only major cities have an OK-ish public transit network (when it actually runs). But if you live on the outskirts 'cause you can't afford an apartment in the center? You're SoL. You maybe get a couple buses around rush hour. Hell, even in the Paris region, outside the closest suburbs, there are only a few train lines going into Paris. At best you'll need to ride a bus or two to grab one, but most often you'll take your car.
- aborsy 2y ago
  Yeah. Public transport works in major metropolitan cities. It doesn’t work outside that.
rglullis 2y ago
> EU country is quite a bit smaller than the average US state You don't need to drive cross the whole state for your daily commute, do you? > along with the EU being more densely populated Reversing cause-and-effect, here. Suburban sprawl happens because of the car-centric development, not the other way around.
- charcircuit 2y ago
  >You don't need to drive cross the whole state for your daily commute, do you? I've done this before in America. It's over twice as cheap to drive than take a train.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    For your commute? Yeah, I can also take a plane from Germany to England and pay less than what it costs me for the taxi that I will need to get to the airport. Does that mean that flying EasyJet should be considered the most efficient means of transportation? What exactly are you trying to argue, here? - That the cost of one train ticket is higher than the cost of a car trip? - For one single passenger or for a family? - In the US or overall? - Are externalities factored in?

IshKebab 2y ago

€6k/year is a crazy price for a car. For me insurance, tax, servicing and depreciation are about £1k/year. And also that's an extremely cheap train ticket. In the UK it would be 10x that easily.

rsynnott 2y ago
… Do you get free petrol?
- cenamus 2y ago
  Fuel, mandatory insurance, yearly service (also mandatory here), highway tolls, parking fees, usually even the parking space at home, in apartments,... Just goes on and on
CalRobert 2y ago
That depreciation number is extremely suspicious, unless your car is very old/cheap in which case your service number is suspicious (or you value your time at close to 0 GBP per hour). Also, your car has to park somewhere presumably, which uses land, and I assume your car uses fuel (or electricity, but unlikely if your car is that cheap)
- IshKebab 2y ago
  I bought it for £12k when it was 3 years old (Skoda Octavia) and I'm hoping it will last 20 years at least. Service is like £200, insurance £230, MOT £50, tax £130 or something. Ok maybe more like £1.3k. Still waaaay less than €6k. Park it on the drive. Yeah I wasn't including fuel costs because they depend on how much you drive. I'm probably about at about £500/year at most (I work from home). When I commuted by car it would have been maybe £1k/year (£10/day but I lift shared).
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Ah, okay, so the deprecation is more "this is what I imagine the deprecation to be" than anything else. You may expect maintenance costs to... increase as it gets older.

aborsy 2y ago

Nonsense. First, the money is pretaken from your salary under several categories (taxes, social changes, public transportation tax, and occasional taxes for specific lines). Then, a metro monthly pass is around $100 in Paris and $130 in NYC. In other words, after paying through taxes, you have to pay for tickets at market rates. That’s $1200 for city transport, not covering outer zones or intercity travel (unless you live in densely populated cities that have sufficient transportation, in which case you pay in rent). Then, you pay through wasting time, and other factors I mentioned in my other comment.