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The 'no fruit juice' thing really got on my nerves when my kids were little since people just throw it out with no qualifications. So really, if I cut up some o

The 'no fruit juice' thing really got on my nerves when my kids were little since people just throw it out with no qualifications. So really, if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup I can't give it to my kid because fruit = sugar = bad? It's such a reductionist way to look at food and nutrition. I also recently had a PT tell me that blending fruit into smoothies removes all the nutritional value, which is why no one should get nutritional advice heath professionals who are not nutritionists.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup I can't give it to my kid Nobody was seriously arguing against fresh-squeezed juices (especially when served with the pulp).
- timcobb 2y ago
  With pulp we're getting somewhere, but without pulp?
  - damnesian 2y ago
    there is still the folate and magnesium citrate. and of course vitamin c. It's not completely useless without pulp.
- colechristensen 2y ago
  >Nobody was seriously arguing against fresh-squeezed juices (especially when served with the pulp). Yes they are. And when it comes down to it a little bit of fiber especially when something has been aggressively mashed up, doesn't make your orange juice all that different from a Mtn Dew. Fructose is fructose and no amount of magical extras is going to make that big of a difference on its metabolic effects. I say that but I'm not advocating you to not drink juice. Just balance your inputs.
- nineplay 2y ago
  People below you in this thread are saying that fresh squeezed orange juice is little better than Mountain Dew. Something about nutrition makes people lose their minds.
  - smt88 2y ago
    They are correct in terms of nutrition and sugar, but most kids can process a lot of sugar fine. Fruit has also been bred to be much sweeter and less nutritious than it was 50 years ago, so there's that too. Moderation is the key to everything.
    - nineplay 2y ago
      I agree but no one makes headlines or sells books by talking about nuance and moderation so we get terrible advice from magazines and 'professionals' and all get steadily less healthy.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > fresh squeezed orange juice is little better than Mountain Dew A reasonable way to look at it is as a flat, fortified Mountain Dew. Great as a treat. Bad as a habit, at least with modern oranges.
    - nineplay 2y ago
      That is an impossibly stupid way to look at it. Food is not just a bunch of numbers on a label.
      - recursive 2y ago
        So what is it? And what's a smart way to look at it?
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Food is not just a bunch of numbers on a label Of course not. But a kid raised on a high-sugar diet, particularly if reïnforced repetitively through habit, is going to have a tougher time eating healthy than someone who learned to see sugary drinks as a treat.
- fnord77 2y ago
  I am. That's a processed food. The sugar is concentrated via a mechanical extraction
colechristensen 2y ago
>I also recently had a PT tell me that blending fruit into smoothies removes all the nutritional value, which is why no one should get nutritional advice heath professionals who are not nutritionists. I'd just suggest nobody get nutritional advice. Really so much of it is just nonsense and there's no good advice in my opinion outside "eat a variety of food in moderation" unless you have specific health problems. If a health professional told me that blending fruit into smoothies removes nutritional value I'd make it a point to try to get them fired. (I have gotten healthcare professionals fired, but for more serious stupid statements)
- nineplay 2y ago
  I don't entirely disagree but my kid was with me and I feel like I need someone now to reassure her that blending doesn't magically remove vitamins from food. ( I asked her if blending tomatoes for sauce removed the nutritional value but that's different for reasons that no one understands. ) I'm with you. Eat a variety of food and as close to the natural source as possible. If you think that orange juice and mountain dew are the same because of sugar content than you've lost the plot.
timcobb 2y ago
> So really, if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup I can't give it to my kid because fruit = sugar = bad? It's such a reductionist way to look at food and nutrition. Sorta? It's not bad, right? But it has not much nutritional value, and spikes their glycemic index, which is probably fine but... why? I guess it does taste good...
- nineplay 2y ago
  Because no one wants to drink water all day every day and nothing else.
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    It probably has to do with not being American, but at least here in italy it's completely fine to drink water and only that on a regular day. I do give that there's probably more variety, I know some people having preferences for certain bottled waters over others (I'll gladly drink whatever water I find, but I'm not a fan of the plastic taste of some bottled waters and definitely a hater of refrigerator-cold water) From my holidays in the US I recall shops, even small ones, having lots of drinks. Like, shelves and shelves of any alcohol free drink (and some abv ones) one could imagine. Here I go to my neighborhood small supermarket and there's coke, lemonade, Fanta, tonic water, a few local products such as spuma and that's it
    - nineplay 2y ago
      I drink water in the US every day just fine, I don't think there's anything cultural going on here. No one drinks coffee or tea or beer or wine in Italy? Pop culture has deceived me.
      - amarcheschi 2y ago
        Oh well coffee is definitely a given for a lot of Italians lol. Tea as well although less spread than coffee. I was talking more about drinks taken in cans or bigger quantities than a coffee/cup of tea. Wine is definitely more prevalent in the older gens, young people drink albeit less. Up until a few years ago - and in some older people is valid for today as well - there was the belief that a small glass of wine a day wouldn't do harm, or that it had a positive effect on your health... So yeah, alcohol is often on the table, but there's much less choice about the variety of drinks compared in the us. Then, if you have to work in the afternoon you might choose to not drink alcohol, so you're stuck with water or the other more common soft drinks such as coke (...)
MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago
> if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup I can't give it to my kid because fruit = sugar = bad? Yeah, that's fine, but a 16 ounce glass of orange juice has way more than one orange in it, and it's got a hell of a lot of sugar.
ch4s3 2y ago
The real issue with fruit juice is that you can easily consume the juice of several pieces of fruit all at once and in a form that makes the sugar rapidly available so you get insulin spikes. The serving size for children of juice is 4-6oz which isn't very much volume, so its super easy to over do it. If you eat the whole fruit that sugar s bound up with fiber so you don't consume as much as easily and you digest it more slowly. Fiber plays a key role in satiety (feeling full) and stripped of fiber its easy to consume too many calories. A whole orange contains 3-6x the fiber of the equivalent volume of orange juice with pulp.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  It is that and that the acidity of the fruit juice is pretty bad for the enamel of your teeth.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > the acidity of the fruit juice is pretty bad for the enamel of your teeth Not an issue for kids with milk teeth. Not an issue for adults who brush. Restricting diet for dental hygiene always struck me as convoluted.
BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
Or just do like me and switch to grapefruit juice. Awesome without drinking pure liquid sugar.
snozolli 2y ago
no one should get nutritional advice heath professionals who are not nutritionists. Nobody should take advice from nutritionists. It's not a regulated title. Anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. Take your nutritional advice from dieticians (and licensed medical professionals with relevant training and experience).
- bitwize 2y ago
  As Dara Ó Briain put it, dietician is to nutritionist as dentist is to tootheologist.
fnord77 2y ago
> if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup generally, processed foods are bad. You just created a processed food - you extracted the sugar and left the fiber and other good stuff behind.
- lukan 2y ago
  "generally, processed foods are bad" So ... you are on a raw food diet then? I met some people who managed this for some years, but it sounds not really practical (or healthy) to me. And they were in no better shape in my perception. Rather the contrary. Humans use fire to process food since a long time.
bitwize 2y ago
Consuming whole fruit is kinda okay because the fiber in the fruit helps buffer sugar absorption. With juice you're getting lots of sugar but no fiber. Commercially bottled juices (e.g., Tropicana) are worse but fresh squeezed is still bad. If it's sweet, spit it out!

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup I can't give it to my kid Nobody was seriously arguing against fresh-squeezed juices (especially when served with the pulp).

timcobb 2y ago
With pulp we're getting somewhere, but without pulp?
- damnesian 2y ago
  there is still the folate and magnesium citrate. and of course vitamin c. It's not completely useless without pulp.
colechristensen 2y ago
>Nobody was seriously arguing against fresh-squeezed juices (especially when served with the pulp). Yes they are. And when it comes down to it a little bit of fiber especially when something has been aggressively mashed up, doesn't make your orange juice all that different from a Mtn Dew. Fructose is fructose and no amount of magical extras is going to make that big of a difference on its metabolic effects. I say that but I'm not advocating you to not drink juice. Just balance your inputs.
nineplay 2y ago
People below you in this thread are saying that fresh squeezed orange juice is little better than Mountain Dew. Something about nutrition makes people lose their minds.
- smt88 2y ago
  They are correct in terms of nutrition and sugar, but most kids can process a lot of sugar fine. Fruit has also been bred to be much sweeter and less nutritious than it was 50 years ago, so there's that too. Moderation is the key to everything.
  - nineplay 2y ago
    I agree but no one makes headlines or sells books by talking about nuance and moderation so we get terrible advice from magazines and 'professionals' and all get steadily less healthy.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > fresh squeezed orange juice is little better than Mountain Dew A reasonable way to look at it is as a flat, fortified Mountain Dew. Great as a treat. Bad as a habit, at least with modern oranges.
  - nineplay 2y ago
    That is an impossibly stupid way to look at it. Food is not just a bunch of numbers on a label.
    - recursive 2y ago
      So what is it? And what's a smart way to look at it?
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Food is not just a bunch of numbers on a label Of course not. But a kid raised on a high-sugar diet, particularly if reïnforced repetitively through habit, is going to have a tougher time eating healthy than someone who learned to see sugary drinks as a treat.
fnord77 2y ago
I am. That's a processed food. The sugar is concentrated via a mechanical extraction

colechristensen 2y ago

>I also recently had a PT tell me that blending fruit into smoothies removes all the nutritional value, which is why no one should get nutritional advice heath professionals who are not nutritionists. I'd just suggest nobody get nutritional advice. Really so much of it is just nonsense and there's no good advice in my opinion outside "eat a variety of food in moderation" unless you have specific health problems. If a health professional told me that blending fruit into smoothies removes nutritional value I'd make it a point to try to get them fired. (I have gotten healthcare professionals fired, but for more serious stupid statements)

nineplay 2y ago
I don't entirely disagree but my kid was with me and I feel like I need someone now to reassure her that blending doesn't magically remove vitamins from food. ( I asked her if blending tomatoes for sauce removed the nutritional value but that's different for reasons that no one understands. ) I'm with you. Eat a variety of food and as close to the natural source as possible. If you think that orange juice and mountain dew are the same because of sugar content than you've lost the plot.

timcobb 2y ago

> So really, if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup I can't give it to my kid because fruit = sugar = bad? It's such a reductionist way to look at food and nutrition. Sorta? It's not bad, right? But it has not much nutritional value, and spikes their glycemic index, which is probably fine but... why? I guess it does taste good...

nineplay 2y ago
Because no one wants to drink water all day every day and nothing else.
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  It probably has to do with not being American, but at least here in italy it's completely fine to drink water and only that on a regular day. I do give that there's probably more variety, I know some people having preferences for certain bottled waters over others (I'll gladly drink whatever water I find, but I'm not a fan of the plastic taste of some bottled waters and definitely a hater of refrigerator-cold water) From my holidays in the US I recall shops, even small ones, having lots of drinks. Like, shelves and shelves of any alcohol free drink (and some abv ones) one could imagine. Here I go to my neighborhood small supermarket and there's coke, lemonade, Fanta, tonic water, a few local products such as spuma and that's it
  - nineplay 2y ago
    I drink water in the US every day just fine, I don't think there's anything cultural going on here. No one drinks coffee or tea or beer or wine in Italy? Pop culture has deceived me.
    - amarcheschi 2y ago
      Oh well coffee is definitely a given for a lot of Italians lol. Tea as well although less spread than coffee. I was talking more about drinks taken in cans or bigger quantities than a coffee/cup of tea. Wine is definitely more prevalent in the older gens, young people drink albeit less. Up until a few years ago - and in some older people is valid for today as well - there was the belief that a small glass of wine a day wouldn't do harm, or that it had a positive effect on your health... So yeah, alcohol is often on the table, but there's much less choice about the variety of drinks compared in the us. Then, if you have to work in the afternoon you might choose to not drink alcohol, so you're stuck with water or the other more common soft drinks such as coke (...)

MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago

> if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup I can't give it to my kid because fruit = sugar = bad? Yeah, that's fine, but a 16 ounce glass of orange juice has way more than one orange in it, and it's got a hell of a lot of sugar.

ch4s3 2y ago

The real issue with fruit juice is that you can easily consume the juice of several pieces of fruit all at once and in a form that makes the sugar rapidly available so you get insulin spikes. The serving size for children of juice is 4-6oz which isn't very much volume, so its super easy to over do it. If you eat the whole fruit that sugar s bound up with fiber so you don't consume as much as easily and you digest it more slowly. Fiber plays a key role in satiety (feeling full) and stripped of fiber its easy to consume too many calories. A whole orange contains 3-6x the fiber of the equivalent volume of orange juice with pulp.

bobthepanda 2y ago
It is that and that the acidity of the fruit juice is pretty bad for the enamel of your teeth.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > the acidity of the fruit juice is pretty bad for the enamel of your teeth Not an issue for kids with milk teeth. Not an issue for adults who brush. Restricting diet for dental hygiene always struck me as convoluted.

BoingBoomTschak 2y ago

Or just do like me and switch to grapefruit juice. Awesome without drinking pure liquid sugar.

snozolli 2y ago

no one should get nutritional advice heath professionals who are not nutritionists. Nobody should take advice from nutritionists. It's not a regulated title. Anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. Take your nutritional advice from dieticians (and licensed medical professionals with relevant training and experience).

bitwize 2y ago
As Dara Ó Briain put it, dietician is to nutritionist as dentist is to tootheologist.

fnord77 2y ago

> if I cut up some oranges and squeeze the juice into a cup generally, processed foods are bad. You just created a processed food - you extracted the sugar and left the fiber and other good stuff behind.

lukan 2y ago
"generally, processed foods are bad" So ... you are on a raw food diet then? I met some people who managed this for some years, but it sounds not really practical (or healthy) to me. And they were in no better shape in my perception. Rather the contrary. Humans use fire to process food since a long time.

bitwize 2y ago

Consuming whole fruit is kinda okay because the fiber in the fruit helps buffer sugar absorption. With juice you're getting lots of sugar but no fiber. Commercially bottled juices (e.g., Tropicana) are worse but fresh squeezed is still bad. If it's sweet, spit it out!