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by tmpz22 2y ago

[flagged]

DebtDeflation 2y ago
The factories of today are nothing like the 1980s factories this administration thinks they are going to bring back. Go to FRED or any other economic data site and plot manufacturing output and manufacturing employment on the same chart. The US manufactures more today than we ever have in history and it grows every year. Meanwhile, manufacturing employment is around its all time low and declines every year.
- caycep 1y ago
  "manufacturing as a service", however that may look, might be more of a fit for the modern economy...unless we really regress back to 1930
  - HeyLaughingBoy 1y ago
    MaaS is definitely a thing and has been for a long time. Contract manufacturers abound in the US.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- michaelt 1y ago
  > The US manufactures more today than we ever have in history and it grows every year. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHMFG https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHMFG
gjsman-1000 2y ago
> Is that what you dream of for your children? This feels like a justification for slavery and slave-like conditions. I assure you the conditions and salary in most manufacturing countries would cause riots in the US; but as long as it’s out of sight, it’s out of mind, who cares what happens to their children. Imagine if I used this argument for 1850s plantations (the conditions in many factories not being much better). “Do you really want your children working on the plantations? Is this what you dream of for your children?” The answer is, of course not; but that sure as hell doesn’t justify enslaving other people (whether literally in chattel; or implicitly with meager wages, long working hours, no other opportunities, and no time to learn alternative skills).
- KerrAvon 1y ago
  Two things can be true: - you shouldn't want that for your children - you shouldn't want that for their children In a geopolitical context, those are separate discussions. It's not really fair to accuse someone of promoting slavery when they did no such thing.
UncleMeat 1y ago
Yep. People with this wild nostalgia for manufacturing are missing what actually produced those lifestyles. It wasn't the factory. Pundits are going on fox news and saying that having a job where you primarily use a computer turns you into a woman. These people are not coherant.
AngryData 1y ago
The thing is you don't need to run a grueling factory that runs you ragged in the modern day unless you are trying to undercut the poorest economies in the world. People don't want manufacturing back here to try and dominate the world in manufacturing capabilities, they just want some minimal amount of local capacity for it, and for the people that do it to make a decent wage and have basic safety standards. Its not like the US is struggling to barely survive and couldn't afford the cost. But in order to do that and not have it become some grift by the owners from the government there would need to be hard limits on how much owners and investors can extract from it, which is straight up anti-capitalist and of course capitalists are vehemently opposed to any industry or business not operating under capitalist principles, doubly so if it is a state-owned business.

[flagged]

by tmpz22 2y ago

[flagged]

The factories of today are nothing like the 1980s factories this administration thinks they are going to bring back. Go to FRED or any other economic data site and plot manufacturing output and manufacturing employment on the same chart. The US manufactures more today than we ever have in history and it grows every year. Meanwhile, manufacturing employment is around its all time low and declines every year.

caycep 1y ago
"manufacturing as a service", however that may look, might be more of a fit for the modern economy...unless we really regress back to 1930
- HeyLaughingBoy 1y ago
  MaaS is definitely a thing and has been for a long time. Contract manufacturers abound in the US.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
michaelt 1y ago
> The US manufactures more today than we ever have in history and it grows every year. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHMFG https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHMFG

gjsman-1000 2y ago

> Is that what you dream of for your children? This feels like a justification for slavery and slave-like conditions. I assure you the conditions and salary in most manufacturing countries would cause riots in the US; but as long as it’s out of sight, it’s out of mind, who cares what happens to their children. Imagine if I used this argument for 1850s plantations (the conditions in many factories not being much better). “Do you really want your children working on the plantations? Is this what you dream of for your children?” The answer is, of course not; but that sure as hell doesn’t justify enslaving other people (whether literally in chattel; or implicitly with meager wages, long working hours, no other opportunities, and no time to learn alternative skills).

KerrAvon 1y ago
Two things can be true: - you shouldn't want that for your children - you shouldn't want that for their children In a geopolitical context, those are separate discussions. It's not really fair to accuse someone of promoting slavery when they did no such thing.

UncleMeat 1y ago

Yep. People with this wild nostalgia for manufacturing are missing what actually produced those lifestyles. It wasn't the factory. Pundits are going on fox news and saying that having a job where you primarily use a computer turns you into a woman. These people are not coherant.

AngryData 1y ago

The thing is you don't need to run a grueling factory that runs you ragged in the modern day unless you are trying to undercut the poorest economies in the world. People don't want manufacturing back here to try and dominate the world in manufacturing capabilities, they just want some minimal amount of local capacity for it, and for the people that do it to make a decent wage and have basic safety standards. Its not like the US is struggling to barely survive and couldn't afford the cost. But in order to do that and not have it become some grift by the owners from the government there would need to be hard limits on how much owners and investors can extract from it, which is straight up anti-capitalist and of course capitalists are vehemently opposed to any industry or business not operating under capitalist principles, doubly so if it is a state-owned business.