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This isn't fucking around. This is being a productive member of society. America requires participation. It requires discussion. No one -democrat or republi

This isn't fucking around. This is being a productive member of society. America requires participation. It requires discussion. No one -democrat or republican or whatever else- should lose their job over their opinions. No one should be forced to keep their head down and shut up for fear of backlash.

spacedcowboy 1y ago
Dude, if you don’t think that “keeping your head down and doing as you are told” is not just a “part” but a key part of how mega-companies like Microsoft (and Apple, Meta, Google, …) work, I don’t know what to tell you. US companies (in almost all states) have the power to hire and fire for any non-protected reason on a whim, without notice unlike most other western countries. There is little-to-no social support if you lose your job in the USA, and the market for finding another diminishes when you say “oh yeah, I publicly embarrassed my last company”. That is a recipe for living in a state of fear. That is the reality of the USA, today, whether it makes pleasant reading or not.
- like_any_other 1y ago
  You are describing how things are. The post you replied to describes how things should be. Are you sure the two of you even disagree?
  - spacedcowboy 1y ago
    I guess I was disagreeing with "this isn't fucking around". Because it absolutely is, as you say, in today's USA. FWIW I have no problem with the USA moving towards more protection for its workforce, I'd encourage it, even. I doubt it'll happen any time soon though. And even should that incredibly unlikely thing come to pass, I can't see public embarrassment of high-up muckety-mucks by worker drones working well, ever, really. "Bringing the name of the company into disrepute" etc. etc. would be all they'd need. Fired for cause, end of story. There are ways to safely say you disagree with your company's policies, but causing a fuss with worldwide coverage at a major company event seems ... shortsighted at best. You'd be better off asking a very pointed question at one of the "Town Hall" meetings that big companies have, when executives are actually able to be challenged by the worker drones, in front of the whole company, but only the whole company. I'd see that as far more likely to actually succeed in doing something than making a public spectacle. Just MHO.
dekhn 1y ago
Having opinions is one thing; disrupting a major meeting with an unrelated complaint about your employer (and generating national news) is another.
- josefresco 1y ago
  If your employer isn't listening to ethical or moral concerns internally speaking out in a "major meeting" becomes one of the only options (short of striking or leaking to the press).
- tdeck 1y ago
  This is genocide we're talking about. When IBM participated in the Holocaust, would stopping that be more important, or would the priority be the sanctity of IBM's business meetings?
bell-cot 1y ago
IF your participation & discussion do not cost your employer meaningful time, grief, or resources, then they are probably fine with you doing whatever. Otherwise - do not be surprised if your boss concludes that your lofty pursuit of high ideals really needs to be freed from the grubby shackles of association with his morally ambiguous enterprise.
meristohm 1y ago
Anyone can do whatever they choose. I try not to "should". There is a potential distribution of consequences for acting in protest. The degrees to which each individual cares, knows enough to care, etc are diverse, and that diversity is important. I prefer an alternative story than "neoliberal/surveillance capitalism ftw!" and that leads to conflict, which I'm learning to navigate.

spacedcowboy 1y ago

Dude, if you don’t think that “keeping your head down and doing as you are told” is not just a “part” but a key part of how mega-companies like Microsoft (and Apple, Meta, Google, …) work, I don’t know what to tell you. US companies (in almost all states) have the power to hire and fire for any non-protected reason on a whim, without notice unlike most other western countries. There is little-to-no social support if you lose your job in the USA, and the market for finding another diminishes when you say “oh yeah, I publicly embarrassed my last company”. That is a recipe for living in a state of fear. That is the reality of the USA, today, whether it makes pleasant reading or not.

like_any_other 1y ago
You are describing how things are. The post you replied to describes how things should be. Are you sure the two of you even disagree?
- spacedcowboy 1y ago
  I guess I was disagreeing with "this isn't fucking around". Because it absolutely is, as you say, in today's USA. FWIW I have no problem with the USA moving towards more protection for its workforce, I'd encourage it, even. I doubt it'll happen any time soon though. And even should that incredibly unlikely thing come to pass, I can't see public embarrassment of high-up muckety-mucks by worker drones working well, ever, really. "Bringing the name of the company into disrepute" etc. etc. would be all they'd need. Fired for cause, end of story. There are ways to safely say you disagree with your company's policies, but causing a fuss with worldwide coverage at a major company event seems ... shortsighted at best. You'd be better off asking a very pointed question at one of the "Town Hall" meetings that big companies have, when executives are actually able to be challenged by the worker drones, in front of the whole company, but only the whole company. I'd see that as far more likely to actually succeed in doing something than making a public spectacle. Just MHO.

dekhn 1y ago

Having opinions is one thing; disrupting a major meeting with an unrelated complaint about your employer (and generating national news) is another.

josefresco 1y ago
If your employer isn't listening to ethical or moral concerns internally speaking out in a "major meeting" becomes one of the only options (short of striking or leaking to the press).
tdeck 1y ago
This is genocide we're talking about. When IBM participated in the Holocaust, would stopping that be more important, or would the priority be the sanctity of IBM's business meetings?

bell-cot 1y ago

IF your participation & discussion do not cost your employer meaningful time, grief, or resources, then they are probably fine with you doing whatever. Otherwise - do not be surprised if your boss concludes that your lofty pursuit of high ideals really needs to be freed from the grubby shackles of association with his morally ambiguous enterprise.

meristohm 1y ago

Anyone can do whatever they choose. I try not to "should". There is a potential distribution of consequences for acting in protest. The degrees to which each individual cares, knows enough to care, etc are diverse, and that diversity is important. I prefer an alternative story than "neoliberal/surveillance capitalism ftw!" and that leads to conflict, which I'm learning to navigate.