4 ms·

Microsoft workers say they've been fired after protest over Israel contract

18 points by josefresco 2y ago

spacedcowboy 2y ago
[flagged]
- chillingeffect 2y ago
  This isn't fucking around. This is being a productive member of society. America requires participation. It requires discussion. No one -democrat or republican or whatever else- should lose their job over their opinions. No one should be forced to keep their head down and shut up for fear of backlash.
  - spacedcowboy 2y ago
    Dude, if you don’t think that “keeping your head down and doing as you are told” is not just a “part” but a key part of how mega-companies like Microsoft (and Apple, Meta, Google, …) work, I don’t know what to tell you. US companies (in almost all states) have the power to hire and fire for any non-protected reason on a whim, without notice unlike most other western countries. There is little-to-no social support if you lose your job in the USA, and the market for finding another diminishes when you say “oh yeah, I publicly embarrassed my last company”. That is a recipe for living in a state of fear. That is the reality of the USA, today, whether it makes pleasant reading or not.
    - like_any_other 2y ago
      You are describing how things are. The post you replied to describes how things should be. Are you sure the two of you even disagree?
      - spacedcowboy 2y ago
        I guess I was disagreeing with "this isn't fucking around". Because it absolutely is, as you say, in today's USA. FWIW I have no problem with the USA moving towards more protection for its workforce, I'd encourage it, even. I doubt it'll happen any time soon though. And even should that incredibly unlikely thing come to pass, I can't see public embarrassment of high-up muckety-mucks by worker drones working well, ever, really. "Bringing the name of the company into disrepute" etc. etc. would be all they'd need. Fired for cause, end of story. There are ways to safely say you disagree with your company's policies, but causing a fuss with worldwide coverage at a major company event seems ... shortsighted at best. You'd be better off asking a very pointed question at one of the "Town Hall" meetings that big companies have, when executives are actually able to be challenged by the worker drones, in front of the whole company, but only the whole company. I'd see that as far more likely to actually succeed in doing something than making a public spectacle. Just MHO.
  - dekhn 2y ago
    Having opinions is one thing; disrupting a major meeting with an unrelated complaint about your employer (and generating national news) is another.
    - josefresco 2y ago
      If your employer isn't listening to ethical or moral concerns internally speaking out in a "major meeting" becomes one of the only options (short of striking or leaking to the press).
    - tdeck 2y ago
      This is genocide we're talking about. When IBM participated in the Holocaust, would stopping that be more important, or would the priority be the sanctity of IBM's business meetings?
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    IF your participation & discussion do not cost your employer meaningful time, grief, or resources, then they are probably fine with you doing whatever. Otherwise - do not be surprised if your boss concludes that your lofty pursuit of high ideals really needs to be freed from the grubby shackles of association with his morally ambiguous enterprise.
  - meristohm 2y ago
    Anyone can do whatever they choose. I try not to "should". There is a potential distribution of consequences for acting in protest. The degrees to which each individual cares, knows enough to care, etc are diverse, and that diversity is important. I prefer an alternative story than "neoliberal/surveillance capitalism ftw!" and that leads to conflict, which I'm learning to navigate.
- pbiggar 2y ago
  There is work you can do to help end Apple's complicity (though Microsoft is directly participating in the genocide) - you can find the folks working on Apple here: https://applesagainstapartheid.com/ https://applesagainstapartheid.com/
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - pbiggar 2y ago
      I dunno, looks pretty bad https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide-to-the-destruction-of-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide...
      - raxxorraxor 2y ago
        No, you probably do indeed not know. Israel did not start this war. They also once withdrew from Gaza. These facts are all very counterindicative of Israels ambition for genocide. Fairly contrary to what the defacto government of Gaza espouses.
        DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        They withdrew from Gaza, but sealed off its borders, deliberately kept it just above starvation, and kill a few hundred civilians every few years by bombing, invading, or just shooting unarmed protesters near the border fence. What convinces me that this can be called a genocide, besides the incredibly high death toll and the utter and almost complete destruction Israel has wreaked on Gaza, are the many explicitly genocidal statements by Israeli leaders, generals, soldiers, news broadcasters, cultural figures, etc. The way Israelis talk about Palestinians is so blatantly genocidal that it's impossible to interpret the mass killing they've carried out as anything other than deliberate.
        2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

18 points by josefresco 2y ago

spacedcowboy 2y ago

[flagged]

chillingeffect 2y ago
This isn't fucking around. This is being a productive member of society. America requires participation. It requires discussion. No one -democrat or republican or whatever else- should lose their job over their opinions. No one should be forced to keep their head down and shut up for fear of backlash.
- spacedcowboy 2y ago
  Dude, if you don’t think that “keeping your head down and doing as you are told” is not just a “part” but a key part of how mega-companies like Microsoft (and Apple, Meta, Google, …) work, I don’t know what to tell you. US companies (in almost all states) have the power to hire and fire for any non-protected reason on a whim, without notice unlike most other western countries. There is little-to-no social support if you lose your job in the USA, and the market for finding another diminishes when you say “oh yeah, I publicly embarrassed my last company”. That is a recipe for living in a state of fear. That is the reality of the USA, today, whether it makes pleasant reading or not.
  - like_any_other 2y ago
    You are describing how things are. The post you replied to describes how things should be. Are you sure the two of you even disagree?
    - spacedcowboy 2y ago
      I guess I was disagreeing with "this isn't fucking around". Because it absolutely is, as you say, in today's USA. FWIW I have no problem with the USA moving towards more protection for its workforce, I'd encourage it, even. I doubt it'll happen any time soon though. And even should that incredibly unlikely thing come to pass, I can't see public embarrassment of high-up muckety-mucks by worker drones working well, ever, really. "Bringing the name of the company into disrepute" etc. etc. would be all they'd need. Fired for cause, end of story. There are ways to safely say you disagree with your company's policies, but causing a fuss with worldwide coverage at a major company event seems ... shortsighted at best. You'd be better off asking a very pointed question at one of the "Town Hall" meetings that big companies have, when executives are actually able to be challenged by the worker drones, in front of the whole company, but only the whole company. I'd see that as far more likely to actually succeed in doing something than making a public spectacle. Just MHO.
- dekhn 2y ago
  Having opinions is one thing; disrupting a major meeting with an unrelated complaint about your employer (and generating national news) is another.
  - josefresco 2y ago
    If your employer isn't listening to ethical or moral concerns internally speaking out in a "major meeting" becomes one of the only options (short of striking or leaking to the press).
  - tdeck 2y ago
    This is genocide we're talking about. When IBM participated in the Holocaust, would stopping that be more important, or would the priority be the sanctity of IBM's business meetings?
- bell-cot 2y ago
  IF your participation & discussion do not cost your employer meaningful time, grief, or resources, then they are probably fine with you doing whatever. Otherwise - do not be surprised if your boss concludes that your lofty pursuit of high ideals really needs to be freed from the grubby shackles of association with his morally ambiguous enterprise.
- meristohm 2y ago
  Anyone can do whatever they choose. I try not to "should". There is a potential distribution of consequences for acting in protest. The degrees to which each individual cares, knows enough to care, etc are diverse, and that diversity is important. I prefer an alternative story than "neoliberal/surveillance capitalism ftw!" and that leads to conflict, which I'm learning to navigate.
pbiggar 2y ago
There is work you can do to help end Apple's complicity (though Microsoft is directly participating in the genocide) - you can find the folks working on Apple here: https://applesagainstapartheid.com/ https://applesagainstapartheid.com/
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - pbiggar 2y ago
    I dunno, looks pretty bad https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide-to-the-destruction-of-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/18/a-visual-guide...
    - raxxorraxor 2y ago
      No, you probably do indeed not know. Israel did not start this war. They also once withdrew from Gaza. These facts are all very counterindicative of Israels ambition for genocide. Fairly contrary to what the defacto government of Gaza espouses.
      - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        They withdrew from Gaza, but sealed off its borders, deliberately kept it just above starvation, and kill a few hundred civilians every few years by bombing, invading, or just shooting unarmed protesters near the border fence. What convinces me that this can be called a genocide, besides the incredibly high death toll and the utter and almost complete destruction Israel has wreaked on Gaza, are the many explicitly genocidal statements by Israeli leaders, generals, soldiers, news broadcasters, cultural figures, etc. The way Israelis talk about Palestinians is so blatantly genocidal that it's impossible to interpret the mass killing they've carried out as anything other than deliberate.
        2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]