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> They say they "use AI to match the keywords in job description". If recruiters only pick up your resumes based on keyword matching themselves, what is one to

> They say they "use AI to match the keywords in job description". If recruiters only pick up your resumes based on keyword matching themselves, what is one to do, if not adapt their resumes to said keywords so they can at least try to get to a human interview? Not talking about India specifically, but in general. Hiring is broken, so everyone tries to fix it in their own ways to maximize their chances.

WalterBright 2y ago
Recruiters have gone beyond keyword matching, they're now using AI to judge the resume. > Hiring is broken How would you, as an employer, filter out the frauds?
- flaburgan 2y ago
  Personally, I think free software are really important, and I love the developers that I am hiring to be in this mindset as well. So the first think I am doing is to check their gitlab / github profiles. If they love to write code and to share it, there obviously will be code there to check. Of course this code could be written with help of an AI but, nothing is preventing the developer to use it while working as well. As long as the result if good, everything is fine.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  I don't know. Depends on a case by case basis. Maybe someone has solid credentials, maybe someone has some FOSS contributions.
rafaelmn 2y ago
> what is one to do Find roles where your skills match the required skills ?
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  What if there are no open positions on my experience and I have to pivot to another completely different tech stack that I studied in my spare time? What then? Should I be unemployed? We're still taking about SW engineering here, not medicine or rocket science.
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    > What if there are no open positions on my experience and I have to pivot to another completely different tech stack that I studied in my spare time? What then? Should I be unemployed? If you studied and worked with the tech in your free time, you can say so, and show your work. If not, this is the same as lying anywhere else. What if I want to perform brain surgery, but I'm not qualified? Should I be unemployed? Of course I should, as far as brain surgery goes, but there are other jobs out there I can do while I train. > We're still taking about SW engineering here, not medicine or rocket science. SW engineering is a critical component of both medicine and rocket science, and doing it wrong can kill people. Beyond that, you'd be harming others by taking the job from someone who put in the work to actually be qualified, and harming your future coworkers by deceiving them. So the real answer to your question depends on how much you value other people and your principles, compared to valuing yourself and getting what you want. If you don't want to wrestle with that, just add some personal projects to your personal studying.
    - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
      >If you studied and worked with the tech in your free time, you can say so, and show your work. Recruiters or HR who check your resume never cared about what you do in your free time as counting as professional experience, they only do keyword matching on languages or stacks with "year of on the job experience". So white lies are the only way to pass through that initial filter and get to a technical person who will judge your knowledge less superficially. >What if I want to perform brain surgery, but I'm not qualified? Please stop arguing in bad faith. Switching to a different tech stack is not the same as switching to doing brain surgery. No offence, but your attitude, bad faith and lack of empathy seems to comes form a position of privilege who never had to endure poverty and unemployment. So please stop over-dramatizing the hurting people part. As long as you can deliver at work what you said you can in the interview and both parties are happy and getting their expected value out of it, who cares what experience in your resume was a lie and what not?
      - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
- gosub100 2y ago
  There are many recruiters out there that will flat out reject someone if they aren't a perfect match for every single skill listed. I don't have a problem with lying to get past that gauntlet.
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    Just don't be surprised when you're passed over because someone else lied harder, and be aware that, like them, you're harming honest applicants by lying. After all, it's the same game. That said, it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. A few thousand years doesn't cover a lot of evolution away from "fark you, I got mine".
    - gosub100 2y ago
      > it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. Recruiters are harming me by taking a cut of my salary and offering nothing of value other than screening some calls and adding my resume to a spam listing and robodialer. Do you think I care about harming them
      - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
        I'm sorry you feel hurt or harmed by someone. I've felt that, too, and it really sucks. It's not a good feeling. I avoid recruiters unless they can serve me well, too (increased salary, signing bonus, etc), instead preferring to applying directly to individual companies whose mission is interesting and whose culture matches mine. That said, I don't think hurt is a valid justification for hurting someone else, like the innocent parties I mentioned (potential future coworkers, other job applicants). That perpetuates a chain of hurt. Break the chain.
        FirmwareBurner 2y ago
        Nobody's getting hurt when you can do the job. In fact you're doing them a favor by taking a job and making money for them.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Well maybe they don’t.. but of if they manage to take your interview spot it hardly matters.
  - motorest 2y ago
    > And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Perhaps the first step anyone should take is to arrive at the realization that the point of a hiring process from the perspective of a hiring manager is not to find the absolute best candidate. The goal is to pick anyone, anyone at all, from a pool of acceptable candidates. If they are able to get through the door and not shit the bed, they are a superb hire.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Well maybe they don’t.. but if they manage to take your interview spot it hardly matters.
_yy01 2y ago
AI will often casually lie / make up points which sound authentic.
- abirch 2y ago
  AI is the GOAT of Buzzword generation or should I/Gemini say "Synergistic AI-powered paradigm shift: the ultimate game-changer for disruptive innovation in buzzword generation."
- zellyn 2y ago
  It's also the perfect excuse if you get caught lying. “Oh shit, I ran it through ChatGPT one last time after proof-reading, and forgot to review the output carefully. Sorry!”
  - collingreen 2y ago
    Lying, excused with more lying! What could go wrong?
    - ohthatsnotright 2y ago
      Probably get promoted to C-suite.

WalterBright 2y ago

Recruiters have gone beyond keyword matching, they're now using AI to judge the resume. > Hiring is broken How would you, as an employer, filter out the frauds?

flaburgan 2y ago
Personally, I think free software are really important, and I love the developers that I am hiring to be in this mindset as well. So the first think I am doing is to check their gitlab / github profiles. If they love to write code and to share it, there obviously will be code there to check. Of course this code could be written with help of an AI but, nothing is preventing the developer to use it while working as well. As long as the result if good, everything is fine.
FirmwareBurner 2y ago
I don't know. Depends on a case by case basis. Maybe someone has solid credentials, maybe someone has some FOSS contributions.

rafaelmn 2y ago

> what is one to do Find roles where your skills match the required skills ?

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
What if there are no open positions on my experience and I have to pivot to another completely different tech stack that I studied in my spare time? What then? Should I be unemployed? We're still taking about SW engineering here, not medicine or rocket science.
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  > What if there are no open positions on my experience and I have to pivot to another completely different tech stack that I studied in my spare time? What then? Should I be unemployed? If you studied and worked with the tech in your free time, you can say so, and show your work. If not, this is the same as lying anywhere else. What if I want to perform brain surgery, but I'm not qualified? Should I be unemployed? Of course I should, as far as brain surgery goes, but there are other jobs out there I can do while I train. > We're still taking about SW engineering here, not medicine or rocket science. SW engineering is a critical component of both medicine and rocket science, and doing it wrong can kill people. Beyond that, you'd be harming others by taking the job from someone who put in the work to actually be qualified, and harming your future coworkers by deceiving them. So the real answer to your question depends on how much you value other people and your principles, compared to valuing yourself and getting what you want. If you don't want to wrestle with that, just add some personal projects to your personal studying.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    >If you studied and worked with the tech in your free time, you can say so, and show your work. Recruiters or HR who check your resume never cared about what you do in your free time as counting as professional experience, they only do keyword matching on languages or stacks with "year of on the job experience". So white lies are the only way to pass through that initial filter and get to a technical person who will judge your knowledge less superficially. >What if I want to perform brain surgery, but I'm not qualified? Please stop arguing in bad faith. Switching to a different tech stack is not the same as switching to doing brain surgery. No offence, but your attitude, bad faith and lack of empathy seems to comes form a position of privilege who never had to endure poverty and unemployment. So please stop over-dramatizing the hurting people part. As long as you can deliver at work what you said you can in the interview and both parties are happy and getting their expected value out of it, who cares what experience in your resume was a lie and what not?
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
gosub100 2y ago
There are many recruiters out there that will flat out reject someone if they aren't a perfect match for every single skill listed. I don't have a problem with lying to get past that gauntlet.
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  Just don't be surprised when you're passed over because someone else lied harder, and be aware that, like them, you're harming honest applicants by lying. After all, it's the same game. That said, it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. A few thousand years doesn't cover a lot of evolution away from "fark you, I got mine".
  - gosub100 2y ago
    > it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. Recruiters are harming me by taking a cut of my salary and offering nothing of value other than screening some calls and adding my resume to a spam listing and robodialer. Do you think I care about harming them
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      I'm sorry you feel hurt or harmed by someone. I've felt that, too, and it really sucks. It's not a good feeling. I avoid recruiters unless they can serve me well, too (increased salary, signing bonus, etc), instead preferring to applying directly to individual companies whose mission is interesting and whose culture matches mine. That said, I don't think hurt is a valid justification for hurting someone else, like the innocent parties I mentioned (potential future coworkers, other job applicants). That perpetuates a chain of hurt. Break the chain.
      - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
        Nobody's getting hurt when you can do the job. In fact you're doing them a favor by taking a job and making money for them.
wqaatwt 2y ago
And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Well maybe they don’t.. but of if they manage to take your interview spot it hardly matters.
- motorest 2y ago
  > And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Perhaps the first step anyone should take is to arrive at the realization that the point of a hiring process from the perspective of a hiring manager is not to find the absolute best candidate. The goal is to pick anyone, anyone at all, from a pool of acceptable candidates. If they are able to get through the door and not shit the bed, they are a superb hire.
wqaatwt 2y ago
And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Well maybe they don’t.. but if they manage to take your interview spot it hardly matters.

_yy01 2y ago

AI will often casually lie / make up points which sound authentic.

abirch 2y ago
AI is the GOAT of Buzzword generation or should I/Gemini say "Synergistic AI-powered paradigm shift: the ultimate game-changer for disruptive innovation in buzzword generation."
zellyn 2y ago
It's also the perfect excuse if you get caught lying. “Oh shit, I ran it through ChatGPT one last time after proof-reading, and forgot to review the output carefully. Sorry!”
- collingreen 2y ago
  Lying, excused with more lying! What could go wrong?
  - ohthatsnotright 2y ago
    Probably get promoted to C-suite.