5 ms·

What scares me is if these appliances will connect to any open network in order to phone home without the user's consent.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
When was the last time you saw any open networks in residential homes? All wifi access points use WPA2 and passwords out of the box in the last 10+ years. There might be one from some random hotel lobby nearby or neighbor with a Windows Vista PC, but that's the exception nowadays, not the rule.
- fuzzy2 2y ago
  Just now, because Vodafone is running Wi-Fi hotspots on their customers' routers. (It's opt-out.) An appliance wouldn't be able to use that, of course.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    Those are not open but require in-browser authentication for customers.
- rpgwaiter 2y ago
  I know it’s not common but I’ve kept a client-isolated open wifi hotspot on my property for a long time. You never know when someone might be in the neighborhood and need a connection! So far, a single client has connected in 4 years and I can’t remember if that was me or not.
  - frizlab 2y ago
    I used to do that but now I have put a password on my guest wifi with a QR code for easy typing (which I still have not printed; I should do that one of these days).
- cptskippy 2y ago
  They won't even have to be open. ISPs like Comcast have been offering the ability to connect to Comcast hotspots that are just running on consumer's routers. How long before they offer that as a service to 3rd parties like Bosch or LG?
twiceaday 2y ago
There is money in them doing this nasty nonsense. The cost of something like a cellular connection will only keep dropping. Therefore, it is just a matter of time before such devices can connect to the internet without any way for the user to prevent them. Nobody is going to Faraday cage their house.
- 20after4 2y ago
  That’s where you’re wrong. I’m sure some people will indeed faraday cage their house (or their devices). I know that I’ll have wallpaper to match my hat.
Wontron 2y ago
Eventually the cost of a 5G module and data plan will be low enough that these appliances won't need any help to phone home.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  And you won’t be able to do anything. That’s why regulating some base standards and labelling is essential.
- tylerflick 2y ago
  Then I will finally be able to use the full power of aluminum foil rolls from Costco.
- jsheard 2y ago
  You don't even need 5G when things like Amazon Sidewalk exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Sidewalk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Sidewalk Echo devices serve as internet-to-sidewalk bridges by default so it's pretty extensive, Amazon claims >90% of the US population is covered.
  - badgersnake 2y ago
    If you have an echo, you’re probably not too worried about this.
    - jsheard 2y ago
      It doesn't have to be your Echo, a Sidewalk client can get low-bandwidth internet access through any Echo that it can reach over LoRa, which goes pretty far.
theshrike79 2y ago
There was an anecdotal story on Reddit about a Samsung TV that did this. The poster disabled WiFi on the TV and didn't add it to their own network. The TV kept complaining and re-enabling the wireless interface and eventually latched on to a neighbour's unsecured guest hotspot...
IvyMike 2y ago
Just put your dishwasher in airplane mode...

FirmwareBurner 2y ago

When was the last time you saw any open networks in residential homes? All wifi access points use WPA2 and passwords out of the box in the last 10+ years. There might be one from some random hotel lobby nearby or neighbor with a Windows Vista PC, but that's the exception nowadays, not the rule.

fuzzy2 2y ago
Just now, because Vodafone is running Wi-Fi hotspots on their customers' routers. (It's opt-out.) An appliance wouldn't be able to use that, of course.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  Those are not open but require in-browser authentication for customers.
rpgwaiter 2y ago
I know it’s not common but I’ve kept a client-isolated open wifi hotspot on my property for a long time. You never know when someone might be in the neighborhood and need a connection! So far, a single client has connected in 4 years and I can’t remember if that was me or not.
- frizlab 2y ago
  I used to do that but now I have put a password on my guest wifi with a QR code for easy typing (which I still have not printed; I should do that one of these days).
cptskippy 2y ago
They won't even have to be open. ISPs like Comcast have been offering the ability to connect to Comcast hotspots that are just running on consumer's routers. How long before they offer that as a service to 3rd parties like Bosch or LG?

twiceaday 2y ago

There is money in them doing this nasty nonsense. The cost of something like a cellular connection will only keep dropping. Therefore, it is just a matter of time before such devices can connect to the internet without any way for the user to prevent them. Nobody is going to Faraday cage their house.

20after4 2y ago
That’s where you’re wrong. I’m sure some people will indeed faraday cage their house (or their devices). I know that I’ll have wallpaper to match my hat.

Wontron 2y ago

Eventually the cost of a 5G module and data plan will be low enough that these appliances won't need any help to phone home.

dzhiurgis 2y ago
And you won’t be able to do anything. That’s why regulating some base standards and labelling is essential.
tylerflick 2y ago
Then I will finally be able to use the full power of aluminum foil rolls from Costco.
jsheard 2y ago
You don't even need 5G when things like Amazon Sidewalk exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Sidewalk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Sidewalk Echo devices serve as internet-to-sidewalk bridges by default so it's pretty extensive, Amazon claims >90% of the US population is covered.
- badgersnake 2y ago
  If you have an echo, you’re probably not too worried about this.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    It doesn't have to be your Echo, a Sidewalk client can get low-bandwidth internet access through any Echo that it can reach over LoRa, which goes pretty far.

theshrike79 2y ago

There was an anecdotal story on Reddit about a Samsung TV that did this. The poster disabled WiFi on the TV and didn't add it to their own network. The TV kept complaining and re-enabling the wireless interface and eventually latched on to a neighbour's unsecured guest hotspot...

IvyMike 2y ago

Just put your dishwasher in airplane mode...