4 ms·

Exactly. Tell a truck driver, construction worker, farmer, fast food employee how hard your software job is.

sarchertech 2y ago
Truck driver is a special kind of hell because of the time away from home. But if it paid well enough and had better job security, I’d much rather be building houses all day. I worked in retail for a while and made it to supervisor. It was much easier than being a software engineer, the pay was just crappy. Software engineering is definitely up there in terms of mentally demanding jobs, it just pays well.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  Both construction and mowing lawns are two jobs I can say felt much more rewarding than programming. Each day you walked away with a sense of having "built" something (or, er, tidied up in the case of mowing lawns). And accomplishing anything with your hands and manual labor is instantly gratifying.
  - threatofrain 2y ago
    There are a lot of programming jobs where people never get to build anything, only fix things that other people didn't do well enough. Many people have never seen greenfield. Other people work jobs where they're pumping out new creative works. So when people talk about how spiritually satisfying programming is we're gonna hear this discordance.
  - m000 2y ago
    > And accomplishing anything with your hands and manual labor is instantly gratifying. May I add that Agile (which appears to be the currently prevalent work methodology in SE) takes away much of the gratification of software engineering?
stefanos82 2y ago
I think it's an unfair comparison here. A developer, programmer, software engineer, call this category of work however you like, it uses the brain at such relentless limits, implicitly or explicitly depending on the problem a person it's currently working on, it takes an incredible amount of effort to relax your mind at the end of the day. I remember working on a very difficult project for a customer and I would sleep for 4-5 hours per day until I deliver it, and by the end of the project I was so exhausted that I had to take a whole week to cool down my brain and relax my body. It took me a whole month to fully recover! I have worked as a construction worker with my father and I know how to grow my own fruits and veggies; I know the struggles with those things...but trust me, you cannot compare the two by any means! Using your body exclusively it can be tiring indeed, but at the end of the day, you will have a nice shower, eat and rest well, and the next day you will be good to go; whereas with using your mind exclusively can be so dangerous in so many ways! At least, that's my case.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > I remember working on a very difficult project for a customer and I would sleep for 4-5 hours per day until I deliver it That’s not normal or typical.
  - stefanos82 2y ago
    It's actually quite common and typical for freelancers. Unfortunately when you evaluate a project, initially everything looks and feel just right, that you wouldn't have any problem delivering the end result as soon as possible. But..! We know how customers ask for small "favors" of "tiny" changes that won't affect the whole project, or so they think(!), which eventually end up delaying the whole development as they become painful hurdles, only to find yourself struggling to deliver the project so you can get paid in time. Those who know this nightmare, know!
    - nradov 2y ago
rini17 2y ago
Not easy either but they have less of "the reward for work done is more work more learning".
JKCalhoun 2y ago
Actually when I was gutting salmon in Alaska, making pizzas at Godfather's, mowing lawns, working as dishwasher in the dorms to pay tuition ... these all were much less stressful jobs that I look back on almost fondly. (Well, maybe not the cannery.)
threatofrain 2y ago
Winning in software is as easy as winning in chess. Often times you're making ripples with just the flick of a wrist. You make a few clicks and suddenly you're matched against someone from across the world. Other times you're just staring at the monitor, looking intently but doing nothing. Even children could make it to the top of the world in this activity of intense sitting.
9rx 2y ago
I work in software, farm, and in a restaurant (albeit not fast food). They are all easy and hard in their own dimensions.
whateveracct 2y ago
I guess the argument could be... They can't do my job. I won't do theirs.
iLemming 2y ago
I think you're conflating job satisfaction and the difficulty of doing it. Software engineering can bring immense joy, but it is often a hard job to do. While it may not be physically demanding like some trades, it is often intellectually demanding and stressful, especially with tight deadlines and evolving technologies. You know that intellectual tasks, such as those found in software engineering, can require significant mental effort and may burn more calories than some physical jobs due to constant cognitive engagement and stress?
Ferret7446 2y ago
How about this: tell a truck driver, construction worker, farmer, fast food employee: software engineering is so easy, you should go do it. Clearly, being a truck driver, construction worker, farmer, fast food employee is easier for them, and software engineering is harder, otherwise they would have switched to the easier and better paying job.

Truck driver is a special kind of hell because of the time away from home. But if it paid well enough and had better job security, I’d much rather be building houses all day. I worked in retail for a while and made it to supervisor. It was much easier than being a software engineer, the pay was just crappy. Software engineering is definitely up there in terms of mentally demanding jobs, it just pays well.

JKCalhoun 2y ago
Both construction and mowing lawns are two jobs I can say felt much more rewarding than programming. Each day you walked away with a sense of having "built" something (or, er, tidied up in the case of mowing lawns). And accomplishing anything with your hands and manual labor is instantly gratifying.
- threatofrain 2y ago
  There are a lot of programming jobs where people never get to build anything, only fix things that other people didn't do well enough. Many people have never seen greenfield. Other people work jobs where they're pumping out new creative works. So when people talk about how spiritually satisfying programming is we're gonna hear this discordance.
- m000 2y ago
  > And accomplishing anything with your hands and manual labor is instantly gratifying. May I add that Agile (which appears to be the currently prevalent work methodology in SE) takes away much of the gratification of software engineering?

stefanos82 2y ago

I think it's an unfair comparison here. A developer, programmer, software engineer, call this category of work however you like, it uses the brain at such relentless limits, implicitly or explicitly depending on the problem a person it's currently working on, it takes an incredible amount of effort to relax your mind at the end of the day. I remember working on a very difficult project for a customer and I would sleep for 4-5 hours per day until I deliver it, and by the end of the project I was so exhausted that I had to take a whole week to cool down my brain and relax my body. It took me a whole month to fully recover! I have worked as a construction worker with my father and I know how to grow my own fruits and veggies; I know the struggles with those things...but trust me, you cannot compare the two by any means! Using your body exclusively it can be tiring indeed, but at the end of the day, you will have a nice shower, eat and rest well, and the next day you will be good to go; whereas with using your mind exclusively can be so dangerous in so many ways! At least, that's my case.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rsynnott 2y ago
> I remember working on a very difficult project for a customer and I would sleep for 4-5 hours per day until I deliver it That’s not normal or typical.
- stefanos82 2y ago
  It's actually quite common and typical for freelancers. Unfortunately when you evaluate a project, initially everything looks and feel just right, that you wouldn't have any problem delivering the end result as soon as possible. But..! We know how customers ask for small "favors" of "tiny" changes that won't affect the whole project, or so they think(!), which eventually end up delaying the whole development as they become painful hurdles, only to find yourself struggling to deliver the project so you can get paid in time. Those who know this nightmare, know!
  - nradov 2y ago

rini17 2y ago

Not easy either but they have less of "the reward for work done is more work more learning".

JKCalhoun 2y ago

Actually when I was gutting salmon in Alaska, making pizzas at Godfather's, mowing lawns, working as dishwasher in the dorms to pay tuition ... these all were much less stressful jobs that I look back on almost fondly. (Well, maybe not the cannery.)

threatofrain 2y ago

Winning in software is as easy as winning in chess. Often times you're making ripples with just the flick of a wrist. You make a few clicks and suddenly you're matched against someone from across the world. Other times you're just staring at the monitor, looking intently but doing nothing. Even children could make it to the top of the world in this activity of intense sitting.

9rx 2y ago

I work in software, farm, and in a restaurant (albeit not fast food). They are all easy and hard in their own dimensions.

whateveracct 2y ago

I guess the argument could be... They can't do my job. I won't do theirs.

iLemming 2y ago

I think you're conflating job satisfaction and the difficulty of doing it. Software engineering can bring immense joy, but it is often a hard job to do. While it may not be physically demanding like some trades, it is often intellectually demanding and stressful, especially with tight deadlines and evolving technologies. You know that intellectual tasks, such as those found in software engineering, can require significant mental effort and may burn more calories than some physical jobs due to constant cognitive engagement and stress?

Ferret7446 2y ago

How about this: tell a truck driver, construction worker, farmer, fast food employee: software engineering is so easy, you should go do it. Clearly, being a truck driver, construction worker, farmer, fast food employee is easier for them, and software engineering is harder, otherwise they would have switched to the easier and better paying job.