4 ms·

My point is, that process of convincing is advertising. So they'll only ban non-political advertising... until they decide your movement isn't political for th

by msla 2y ago

My point is, that process of convincing is advertising. So they'll only ban non-political advertising... until they decide your movement isn't political for the purposes of the laws. It's too obvious, and too tempting, a cudgel for any government to have.

tsimionescu 2y ago
No, convincing is not advertising. Mein Kampf is not an ad, as abhorrent as it is.
JoshTriplett 2y ago
> So they'll only ban non-political advertising That's likely to be the case anyway, because politicians are rarely willing to restrict themselves. The US Do Not Call list has an exception for political spam. (See also: why the two biggest political parties are unlikely to support better voting systems.)
- johannes1234321 2y ago
  There are other (democratic) countries with restriction on political ads. For the ruling party it isn't as bad as they got other means (official government communication etc.) while advertising is mostly needed as a tool for the opposition for being able to bring topics on the agenda.
camgunz 2y ago
Political messaging is more than TV ads and mailers. There are rallies, online groups, town halls, organizing, basic human communication stuff. --- The way we reign in government isn't by having no rules (the argument you're making reduces to "any rule can be weaponized against political opposition"), it's political checks to ensure weaponization doesn't happen. Or put another way, there is no system of rules that constrains a regime defined by its rule breaking.
- singpolyma3 2y ago
  Organizing involves advertising Though I could imagine only official debates and no other communication allowed would be a no advertising approach
  - camgunz 2y ago
    Door knocking is not advertising, it's having a conversation with people in your community.
    - svieira 2y ago
      Door to door salesmen were still a thing in the early 2000s
    - singpolyma3 2y ago
      Door knocking is the worst kind of advertising and sometimes it won't leave
godelski 2y ago
Is my comment an ad? Am I an ad? https://youtube.com/watch?v=J7XOCG_P6o4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=J7XOCG_P6o4
- 0xBDB 2y ago
  Yes. The United States government is not allowed to regulate commerce unless it is interstate. So it defined interstate commerce as anything that substantially affects interstate commerce. Did you cut down a tree in your backyard and use it to make your own pencil with your own labor? That kept you from buying a pencil that might have been made in another state. Interstate commerce. Did you just represent an idea, and did I pay you with my attention? Advertising. Prison.
  - godelski 2y ago
    > Yes. You are being needlessly obtuse. If you are not going to at least pretend to be acting in good faith, then you just shouldn't comment at all. > The United States government is not allowed to regulate commerce unless it is interstate This isn't true even in the slightest. You are thinking of the Commerce Clause (Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution), which states that Congress has the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations, between states, and with tribes (which are kinda foreign nations). This does not state that the Federal Government cannot define what is legal and illegal. This is done pretty regularly. 24 states have legalized weed and 39 have made it available for medical use, YET it is still illegal under federal ruling and these dispensaries get raided by Federal Agents routinely. There is no violation of the Constitution here. I'll admit that my previous comment was quite terse, but I make a better point over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43606823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43606823 And remember, law doesn't work like code. It needs to be interpreted with intent. The letter of the law is imprecise and is not meant to be absolute. If you know what someone means, don't derail the conversation as if you have a gotcha. You're welcome to request better language, but you don't "win" by misrepresenting what is well understood. We're trying to communicate, not exploit software.
    - 0xBDB 2y ago

by msla 2y ago

tsimionescu 2y ago

No, convincing is not advertising. Mein Kampf is not an ad, as abhorrent as it is.

JoshTriplett 2y ago

> So they'll only ban non-political advertising That's likely to be the case anyway, because politicians are rarely willing to restrict themselves. The US Do Not Call list has an exception for political spam. (See also: why the two biggest political parties are unlikely to support better voting systems.)

johannes1234321 2y ago
There are other (democratic) countries with restriction on political ads. For the ruling party it isn't as bad as they got other means (official government communication etc.) while advertising is mostly needed as a tool for the opposition for being able to bring topics on the agenda.

camgunz 2y ago

Political messaging is more than TV ads and mailers. There are rallies, online groups, town halls, organizing, basic human communication stuff. --- The way we reign in government isn't by having no rules (the argument you're making reduces to "any rule can be weaponized against political opposition"), it's political checks to ensure weaponization doesn't happen. Or put another way, there is no system of rules that constrains a regime defined by its rule breaking.

singpolyma3 2y ago
Organizing involves advertising Though I could imagine only official debates and no other communication allowed would be a no advertising approach
- camgunz 2y ago
  Door knocking is not advertising, it's having a conversation with people in your community.
  - svieira 2y ago
    Door to door salesmen were still a thing in the early 2000s
  - singpolyma3 2y ago
    Door knocking is the worst kind of advertising and sometimes it won't leave

godelski 2y ago

Is my comment an ad? Am I an ad? https://youtube.com/watch?v=J7XOCG_P6o4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=J7XOCG_P6o4

0xBDB 2y ago
Yes. The United States government is not allowed to regulate commerce unless it is interstate. So it defined interstate commerce as anything that substantially affects interstate commerce. Did you cut down a tree in your backyard and use it to make your own pencil with your own labor? That kept you from buying a pencil that might have been made in another state. Interstate commerce. Did you just represent an idea, and did I pay you with my attention? Advertising. Prison.
- godelski 2y ago
  > Yes. You are being needlessly obtuse. If you are not going to at least pretend to be acting in good faith, then you just shouldn't comment at all. > The United States government is not allowed to regulate commerce unless it is interstate This isn't true even in the slightest. You are thinking of the Commerce Clause (Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution), which states that Congress has the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations, between states, and with tribes (which are kinda foreign nations). This does not state that the Federal Government cannot define what is legal and illegal. This is done pretty regularly. 24 states have legalized weed and 39 have made it available for medical use, YET it is still illegal under federal ruling and these dispensaries get raided by Federal Agents routinely. There is no violation of the Constitution here. I'll admit that my previous comment was quite terse, but I make a better point over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43606823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43606823 And remember, law doesn't work like code. It needs to be interpreted with intent. The letter of the law is imprecise and is not meant to be absolute. If you know what someone means, don't derail the conversation as if you have a gotcha. You're welcome to request better language, but you don't "win" by misrepresenting what is well understood. We're trying to communicate, not exploit software.
  - 0xBDB 2y ago