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My only fear with Swift is Apple. The language itself seems largely fine, very interesting even, which makes me feel deeply conflicted. While Apple has been bi

by jchw 2y ago

My only fear with Swift is Apple. The language itself seems largely fine, very interesting even, which makes me feel deeply conflicted. While Apple has been big on pushing multi-platform Swift right now and distancing itself a bit from the Swift branding in some ways (e.g. it having its own GitHub organization) they've historically had quite an ebb and flow to this behavior. If their priorities changed, what happens to the non-Apple projects that adopted Swift? It would be better if there were multiple parties that had stake and some control in the future of Swift. I have similar worries with Microsoft and .NET, although it's a bit different owing to the fact that Microsoft is quite a different company with different problems. It's actually kind of bizarre that it never really felt like Google was a problem for Go, but I guess that's because unlike Apple Swift and Microsoft .NET, Go mostly targets and is almost entirely developed on platforms that Google has little control over. (Though that doesn't mean that their presence is entirely unnoticed, but even stuff like the module proxy has been more well-received than expected. It's an odd area where Google has managed to maintain some goodwill, though it could evaporate over night.)

turnsout 2y ago
I think you hit the nail on the head. By extending Go to many platforms, it doesn't feel like you're using a corporate-sponsored language (though you are). The Swift team is aware that they need to help the language thrive in other contexts, which is why they're working on projects like Embedded Swift [0]. I hope they fully embrace wasm as well! [0]: https://www.swift.org/getting-started/embedded-swift/
odyssey7 2y ago
The rug-pull of Swift from TensorFlow came from Google rather than Apple.
- jchw 2y ago
  Hey, I didn't say you should trust other Google projects. The Google Graveyard meme should be enough evidence of that.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  It came from Google because they couldn’t trust Apple, actually. Also Chris Lattner having the focus of a goldfish.
  - geodel 2y ago
    He has got his mojo back now.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      While the efforts are laudable, it remains to be seen where it will stand against regular Python and Julia, that actually have support from card vendors directly.
Rohansi 2y ago
Not sure if you're aware or not but .NET these days can (officially) target pretty much anything - not just Windows. Usage on Linux definitely picked up vs. Windows because Linux servers are cheaper. Android/iOS is there. WebAssembly is also there.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Kind of, still misses a few platforms that have had JVM support outside mainstream computing, but yeah mostly great experience for target platforms. The IDE story is a bit complicated though, either you go for Rider, or have to delve into the internal politics of VSCode vs VS, and features that VSCode will never get because there are those VS licenses to sell.

by jchw 2y ago

turnsout 2y ago

I think you hit the nail on the head. By extending Go to many platforms, it doesn't feel like you're using a corporate-sponsored language (though you are). The Swift team is aware that they need to help the language thrive in other contexts, which is why they're working on projects like Embedded Swift [0]. I hope they fully embrace wasm as well! [0]: https://www.swift.org/getting-started/embedded-swift/

odyssey7 2y ago

The rug-pull of Swift from TensorFlow came from Google rather than Apple.

jchw 2y ago
Hey, I didn't say you should trust other Google projects. The Google Graveyard meme should be enough evidence of that.
saagarjha 2y ago
It came from Google because they couldn’t trust Apple, actually. Also Chris Lattner having the focus of a goldfish.
- geodel 2y ago
  He has got his mojo back now.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    While the efforts are laudable, it remains to be seen where it will stand against regular Python and Julia, that actually have support from card vendors directly.

Rohansi 2y ago

Not sure if you're aware or not but .NET these days can (officially) target pretty much anything - not just Windows. Usage on Linux definitely picked up vs. Windows because Linux servers are cheaper. Android/iOS is there. WebAssembly is also there.

pjmlp 2y ago
Kind of, still misses a few platforms that have had JVM support outside mainstream computing, but yeah mostly great experience for target platforms. The IDE story is a bit complicated though, either you go for Rider, or have to delve into the internal politics of VSCode vs VS, and features that VSCode will never get because there are those VS licenses to sell.