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Could it be that Trump's main goal is to stay in power? I mean not only for the next 3 years. But beyond. If we look at his actions from this angle, could they

Could it be that Trump's main goal is to stay in power? I mean not only for the next 3 years. But beyond. If we look at his actions from this angle, could they make sense?

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
No? The tariffs aren't popular with anyone, have already produced multiple defections from his own party in Congress, and severely undercut the rationale business and financial leaders had for supporting him in 2024. His co-consul Musk, who normally spares no effort to hype up Trump's decisions, has spent the past few days carefully avoiding even indirect acknowledgement of the tariffs. It's really hard to see how this policy could possibly lead to consolidating power.
- abraxas 2y ago
  At this point he gives no fucks about what anyone thinks because the plan is to consolidate the oligarchic power to its maximum, russia style. Winning the hearts and minds is not and never was a part of his plan. And the sad thing is that they will probably succeed. I have no idea why you Americans are so naive about someone who staged a putsch to give up power voluntarily now that he's got it. You will be a russia style full on kleptocracy by the time he's done with you. And then his heirs will lord over you for generations (unless one of them fucks something up). Godspeed.
  - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
    I'm just not sure what people mean when they talk about "consolidating power" as something distinct from convincing people that you should have lots of power. "Russia style" consolidation of power under Putin involved quite a lot of winning hearts and minds. Rather than inducing a recession, for example, Putin doubled the Russian GDP over his first 4 years. I'm not naive about the fact that Trump would like to stay in office after 2028 (he doesn't exactly keep it a secret), but the desire doesn't make him any good at it.
    - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
      Making people rich and powerful wins their hearts and minds pretty fast. Look up the military leaders of the USA. Secretary of Defense, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Service Chiefs (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Space Force) ... all appointed by Trump.
      - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
        You've gotten inaccurate information. Only the Secretary of Defense and Navy chief were appointed by Trump, the rest were appointed by Biden. (The incoming chairman will also be a Trump appointee, of course.)
        ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
        Who do you think the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is and who appointed them?
        SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
        The seat is formally unfilled, so the vice chairman Christopher Grady (appointed by Biden) is the current acting chairman. You may be thinking of Dan Caine, who Trump nominated for the position but hasn't yet been confirmed.
    - vkou 2y ago
      Putin wasn't who consolidated power in Russia, Yeltsin did, when he successfully carried out his coup. Russia stopped being a semi-functional democracy in ~1993, even if it wasn't yet clear to anyone living there at the time. Putin just stepped into the nest of ~unlimited executive power that was already made for him.
      - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
        If you put the end date of Russia's democracy 2 years after its start date, I'm not sure it's right to say it ever had one.
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  Are you saying Trump has to be popular to stay in power?
- kowabungalow 2y ago
  A bad leader and a dictator are kind of the same. They want things to get so bad that their personal relationship with their tiny number of remaining allies and still profitable ventures look so essential in the short term that they don't have to suppress talk of jumping the J-curve with anything but rational fear of starving.
- tzs 2y ago
  Even Ted Cruz criticized them. When I read that I had to check to make sure it wasn't April 1 and that I wasn't reading The Onion.
anal_reactor 2y ago
Step 1: manufacture a crisis Step 2: become an emergency dictator "for the duration of the crisis" Step 3: make sure the crisis never goes away, but it's not so bad that people would revolt It's basically dictatorship 101. In this case the US happens to be the center of global economy, so a crisis in the US also causes a crisis elsewhere, but that's an irrelevant side effect. The only question is whether Americans will realize what's going on before it's too late.
- CottonMcKnight 2y ago
  People forget that he already tried during Covid, when he tweeted that the election should be postponed.

Could it be that Trump's main goal is to stay in power? I mean not only for the next 3 years. But beyond. If we look at his actions from this angle, could they make sense?

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago

No? The tariffs aren't popular with anyone, have already produced multiple defections from his own party in Congress, and severely undercut the rationale business and financial leaders had for supporting him in 2024. His co-consul Musk, who normally spares no effort to hype up Trump's decisions, has spent the past few days carefully avoiding even indirect acknowledgement of the tariffs. It's really hard to see how this policy could possibly lead to consolidating power.

abraxas 2y ago
At this point he gives no fucks about what anyone thinks because the plan is to consolidate the oligarchic power to its maximum, russia style. Winning the hearts and minds is not and never was a part of his plan. And the sad thing is that they will probably succeed. I have no idea why you Americans are so naive about someone who staged a putsch to give up power voluntarily now that he's got it. You will be a russia style full on kleptocracy by the time he's done with you. And then his heirs will lord over you for generations (unless one of them fucks something up). Godspeed.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
  I'm just not sure what people mean when they talk about "consolidating power" as something distinct from convincing people that you should have lots of power. "Russia style" consolidation of power under Putin involved quite a lot of winning hearts and minds. Rather than inducing a recession, for example, Putin doubled the Russian GDP over his first 4 years. I'm not naive about the fact that Trump would like to stay in office after 2028 (he doesn't exactly keep it a secret), but the desire doesn't make him any good at it.
  - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
    Making people rich and powerful wins their hearts and minds pretty fast. Look up the military leaders of the USA. Secretary of Defense, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Service Chiefs (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Space Force) ... all appointed by Trump.
    - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
      You've gotten inaccurate information. Only the Secretary of Defense and Navy chief were appointed by Trump, the rest were appointed by Biden. (The incoming chairman will also be a Trump appointee, of course.)
      - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
        Who do you think the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is and who appointed them?
        SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
        The seat is formally unfilled, so the vice chairman Christopher Grady (appointed by Biden) is the current acting chairman. You may be thinking of Dan Caine, who Trump nominated for the position but hasn't yet been confirmed.
  - vkou 2y ago
    Putin wasn't who consolidated power in Russia, Yeltsin did, when he successfully carried out his coup. Russia stopped being a semi-functional democracy in ~1993, even if it wasn't yet clear to anyone living there at the time. Putin just stepped into the nest of ~unlimited executive power that was already made for him.
    - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
      If you put the end date of Russia's democracy 2 years after its start date, I'm not sure it's right to say it ever had one.
ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
Are you saying Trump has to be popular to stay in power?
kowabungalow 2y ago
A bad leader and a dictator are kind of the same. They want things to get so bad that their personal relationship with their tiny number of remaining allies and still profitable ventures look so essential in the short term that they don't have to suppress talk of jumping the J-curve with anything but rational fear of starving.
tzs 2y ago
Even Ted Cruz criticized them. When I read that I had to check to make sure it wasn't April 1 and that I wasn't reading The Onion.

anal_reactor 2y ago

Step 1: manufacture a crisis Step 2: become an emergency dictator "for the duration of the crisis" Step 3: make sure the crisis never goes away, but it's not so bad that people would revolt It's basically dictatorship 101. In this case the US happens to be the center of global economy, so a crisis in the US also causes a crisis elsewhere, but that's an irrelevant side effect. The only question is whether Americans will realize what's going on before it's too late.

CottonMcKnight 2y ago
People forget that he already tried during Covid, when he tweeted that the election should be postponed.