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I don’t see how tariffs magically create wealth for foreign exporters that translates into higher wages. Let’s say I can buy a $10 shirt from Lesotho with zero

I don’t see how tariffs magically create wealth for foreign exporters that translates into higher wages. Let’s say I can buy a $10 shirt from Lesotho with zero tariff. Now a 50% tariff gets imposed. I can either eat the tariff and pay $15, in which case Lesotho still gets their $10, or Lesotho can eat the tariff to keep their exports competitive, in which case Lesotho now makes $5. The part about giving a competitive advantage to local producers is true, though…

lostlogin 1y ago
Maybe the $5 per garment could go to USAid, and fund care programmes in those countries. A truely laughable suggestion.
rocqua 1y ago
Such a tarrif on low wage countries would prevent the exploitation of low wage countries. Because any county could easily 'defeat' the tarrif by setting a minimum wage. It doesn't help raise the people being exploited out of poverty. But it does prevent countries from getting stuck in a cycle of depending on low wage labor. Whether that works out better for the exploited is uncertain. But the alternative argument is effectively "these poor countries should be happy to let themselves be exploited" it is their only way out of poverty. And that really doesn't sit right with me.
colechristensen 1y ago
for countries that pay a worker $10 a day, put a tariff on the goods produced by that worker to total $10 for countries that pay a worker $15 dollars a day put a tariff on the goods produced by that work to total $4 therefore someone importing goods produced by one worker in one day from the lower wage country would spend $20 for the goods from the lower wage country but only $19 for the goods for the higher wage country giving a competitive advantage for higher wages obviously that is a simplistic example but that's what i mean using tariffs to incentivize better behavior and level the playing field so the most exploitation doesn't make the most money
- GIFtheory 1y ago
  That’s a nice idea, but I’m skeptical—where is the new wealth coming from that will allow Lesotho to pay its workers more? It’s not an issue of strong-arming some bad guys in Lesotho to pay their workers more using tariffs as a negotiation tool. I feel that conflating tariffs with some sort of negotiation tool to bring about positive global change is disingenuous, because the real aim is clearly protectionism.
  - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
    It's coming from the people who buy the exported goods. This would mean, of course, that the people who happen to work for an export-oriented factory become much more wealthy than most people in Lesotho. So you might reasonably wonder whether it's better to make twice as many workers half as wealthy. Labor advocates believe the answer is no: paying some people genuinely good wages both creates and encourages further development, while paying a larger number of people "good enough" wages encourages poor countries to race to the bottom competing for the lowest standard of "good enough".
  - MattPalmer1086 1y ago
    It's clearly not protectionism, because you wouldn't put tariffs on everything - including all the raw materials and parts you need to import, if you wanted your local industries to succeed. And you'd have a coherent industrial policy to go along with it.
    - colechristensen 1y ago
      Protectionism is France and England putting tariffs on each others cheese. America putting tariffs on Canadian lumber. Putting tariffs on places that have a 20x factor difference in wages is something else. And protectionism isn't necessarily a dirty word. It's often valuable to save your local industries from being wiped out and to not have a foreign country have complete control of a necessity.
      - MattPalmer1086 1y ago

lostlogin 1y ago

Maybe the $5 per garment could go to USAid, and fund care programmes in those countries. A truely laughable suggestion.

rocqua 1y ago

Such a tarrif on low wage countries would prevent the exploitation of low wage countries. Because any county could easily 'defeat' the tarrif by setting a minimum wage. It doesn't help raise the people being exploited out of poverty. But it does prevent countries from getting stuck in a cycle of depending on low wage labor. Whether that works out better for the exploited is uncertain. But the alternative argument is effectively "these poor countries should be happy to let themselves be exploited" it is their only way out of poverty. And that really doesn't sit right with me.

colechristensen 1y ago

for countries that pay a worker $10 a day, put a tariff on the goods produced by that worker to total $10 for countries that pay a worker $15 dollars a day put a tariff on the goods produced by that work to total $4 therefore someone importing goods produced by one worker in one day from the lower wage country would spend $20 for the goods from the lower wage country but only $19 for the goods for the higher wage country giving a competitive advantage for higher wages obviously that is a simplistic example but that's what i mean using tariffs to incentivize better behavior and level the playing field so the most exploitation doesn't make the most money

GIFtheory 1y ago
That’s a nice idea, but I’m skeptical—where is the new wealth coming from that will allow Lesotho to pay its workers more? It’s not an issue of strong-arming some bad guys in Lesotho to pay their workers more using tariffs as a negotiation tool. I feel that conflating tariffs with some sort of negotiation tool to bring about positive global change is disingenuous, because the real aim is clearly protectionism.
- SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
  It's coming from the people who buy the exported goods. This would mean, of course, that the people who happen to work for an export-oriented factory become much more wealthy than most people in Lesotho. So you might reasonably wonder whether it's better to make twice as many workers half as wealthy. Labor advocates believe the answer is no: paying some people genuinely good wages both creates and encourages further development, while paying a larger number of people "good enough" wages encourages poor countries to race to the bottom competing for the lowest standard of "good enough".
- MattPalmer1086 1y ago
  It's clearly not protectionism, because you wouldn't put tariffs on everything - including all the raw materials and parts you need to import, if you wanted your local industries to succeed. And you'd have a coherent industrial policy to go along with it.
  - colechristensen 1y ago
    Protectionism is France and England putting tariffs on each others cheese. America putting tariffs on Canadian lumber. Putting tariffs on places that have a 20x factor difference in wages is something else. And protectionism isn't necessarily a dirty word. It's often valuable to save your local industries from being wiped out and to not have a foreign country have complete control of a necessity.
    - MattPalmer1086 1y ago